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Post by justyjon on Nov 2, 2008 20:32:37 GMT -5
www.dustysjustys.com/wheels.htmIs it possible? How hard would it be to find the 'recommended' tire? I really like the 'DJWZ14 15" Black' wheels. I do think a 15" wheel/ tire combo would improve traction/cornering and handling of the car. I also think 15" tires would provide a lot more options(unless they have to be some crazy rare size to fit at all) I sent them an email asking for more info etc. We'll see what they say. And please, big wheel haters, don't slam me for this post! haha. I do think a 16 or 17" wheel would just be silly but I'd personally love to run a set of 15's. To each their own.
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Post by justyjon on Nov 3, 2008 5:07:35 GMT -5
Original email sent and their reply. Hey there, I'm a member at subarujusty.proboards20.com/index.cgi We've had a lot of debate about wheel/tire combos and no one seems to have been able to fit 15" wheels without them rubbing and/or mods to the wheelwells. How can a 16-17" wheel possibly fit? Are you going to post recommended tire sizes on the site for each wheel? I would like to order a set of wheels from you in the future but would like to know for sure that they work and also what the availability of the right tires is, in my area. Some recommended sizes for the 13" wheels are even hard to find, nevermind 12" tires(which I currently have and would like to enlarge) Looking forward to more information And the reply: The problem of fitting most aftermarket rims comes down to offset, you don't want a wheel that is going to stick out too far or one that will scrub the suspension, all of the wheels on the site have the correct offset to fit factory... however, the problem you are referring to and is commonly addressed for the Justy comes down to tire sizing: The OE tire is 21.4" tall and 6.5" wide, the maximum you can run without ANY scrubbing the wheel wells is 24x7.5" (i believe). You could 'technically' run any rim size you wanted up to 20" so long as you could find a tire with a ridiculously low profile that was the correct size where it would not scrub.... unfortunately, tires that odd aren't made and that stops being the case at 15" wheels with a 195/45R15 tire. If you wanted to run the 16" or 17" (we don't recommend the 17s and are thinking of discontinuing them), they don't make a tire short and narrow enough to leave the wheelwells stock. A 16" could use 205/55R16, (stock Impreza size) but you would have to create about 1-1.5" of extra clearance in the wheelwells because the tire just won't fit without rubbing. Personally I recommend the DJWZ01 or the DJWZ17, they look the best, require NO MODS, and are right for the price. Or if you don't want anything even that flashy or $$$ then use earlier OE 14" Honda wheels and tires for a direct fit. The stock 12s are impossible to find, and there are three 13s that will fit and are findable, but pricey. Hope this helps you out some!!!
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 3, 2008 11:46:44 GMT -5
I admire Dusty's efforts to make Justy parts available to us through his website. I have to keep my salt handy whenever I read his info though because I contest some of it. Like when he claims that the EF12 is an evolution of Suzuki's G10 3 cylinder engine. I think he's dead wrong. The Suzuki engine has its oil filter located on the opposite side of the block, it has an open deck block (Justy's is closed deck), and I think it has an external, belt driven water pump. Anyways the point I am getting at is that he says quite fervently that 24" is the maximum tire height you can use on a Justy but then follows up that statement with "I think". Wait a second, which is it, are you sure or do you think? I can tell you that 23" tires will fit and rub. 24" tires, no way! I have seen 15" wheels put onto a Justy and it looks cool but the additional weight will hurt your acceleration, mileage, braking and handling. It just isn't worth it.
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jimm
1993 GL
Posts: 63
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Post by jimm on Nov 3, 2008 13:51:48 GMT -5
I can't even get a 22.8" tire (155-80-13) to fit in the rear without rubbing the front lower edge of the wheel well. So, I'm buying 155-70-13 tires for winter. When it's time for new summers and can't find 165-65-13 anymore then I'll consider going to 165-70-13 which are 22.1" tall. Going any wider is problematic as the rear trailing arm is almost touching the 165 tires sidewall already.
Fitting anything larger than a 13 is not easy, even 14s let alone 15, 16 or 17".
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Post by ultima on Nov 3, 2008 14:31:07 GMT -5
Well I used 195/50/15 wheels like half a year ago, and it looked really cool. The problem was that every little dump made the tires rub the fenders and had a really tight fit Now I'm using 175/70/13 and it works perfect! It rub a little one time when I had 3 people in the car, but it's just one single time this far
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Post by justyjon on Nov 3, 2008 15:48:50 GMT -5
Consensus: Quit trying larger wheels unless you're prepared to do a lot of modifying to the wheelwells and are ready to accept reduced mileage and acceleration.
Ok, I get it. I accept it....
I'm only concerned about the demise of 12(especially) and 13" tires. I suppose there'll always be a tire available from overseas? I see small hatches all over the road in my area. Metro's, Sprints and the like. TONS of them. We even have quite a few Justy's around. Sheesh. Is there not a large demand for 12 and 13" tires? Wtf.
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jimm
1993 GL
Posts: 63
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Post by jimm on Nov 3, 2008 18:09:38 GMT -5
I hear what you are saying. I've just been doing a bunch of looking around and get frustrated with all the hits on European websites for the tire sizes I'm looking for. I'm looking for 13's mind you but they aren't the easiest to find either. Seems the only common sizes available these days in 13" are 155-80-13 and 175-70-13. Both of which aren't 100% ideal and as I mentioned the 155's don't want to fit my car but I think all the Sprints etc can run those sizes. There are a couple sources for 165-70-13 and I think that might be a good second choice.
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Post by jgilk1 on Nov 5, 2008 2:29:43 GMT -5
if wheel rub is the issue!
Why not install a 1" suspension riser and cut the stock springs for the same ride height
the 1' riser will lower the shock and spring (in front and rear) and cutting the stock springs will decrease suspension travel
Eliminating the tire rubbing on the fender
to get the clearance needed in the rear (trailing arm) install a hub spacer (1/2") which should push the side wall of the tire out far enough to clear am i correct or not seattle i know you are itching to respond
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 5, 2008 23:30:54 GMT -5
if wheel rub is the issue!
Why not install a 1" suspension riser and cut the stock springs for the same ride height
the 1' riser will lower the shock and spring (in front and rear) and cutting the stock springs will decrease suspension travel
Eliminating the tire rubbing on the fender
to get the clearance needed in the rear (trailing arm) install a hub spacer (1/2") which should push the side wall of the tire out far enough to clear am i correct or not seattle i know you are itching to respond Well I like the idea of using spacers to maintain ride height in conjunction with cut springs to increase the stiffness (spring-rate). The idea doesn't completely solve the problem but it will lessen the effect of rubbing. The idea probably works in the front on the Mac-struts where there is a well defined spring-perch that can effectively 'trap' the spacer. Where you will run into problems however is in the back where the Chapman-strut and separate coil spring arrangement leave you with less defined spring locations that will not adequately secure a spacer as described above. Look, any time I take issue with a comment or an idea expressed here, it usually boils down to one or two of the two following things: - Look at the big picture
- Get to the bottom line
In this case, it is the latter which happens to be offset and overall tire diameter. If you have any tire that is 23" tall or taller, you're already out of the game. Pfft, game over, done, finito. 22.8" is about all the tire you can stuff under a Justy and even then, you will probably experience some rubbing on occasion. So, it doesn't matter if the wheels are 12", 13", 14", 15" or 16", just as long as they aren't too wide, too offset or shod with a tire that is too tall. As always remember, these cars have less than 75 horsepower when in perfect repair and they respond badly to weight gain, especially weight added to things that spin for a living, like wheels and tires. You'll transform your car from slow to slower and throw your mileage in the crapper if you stuff 15" or 16" tires under it. I'm not against tart'd up hatchbacks but if you want a fat-tired runabout, get a Mazda or a Volkswagen.
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Post by justyjon on Nov 7, 2008 2:03:35 GMT -5
Thanks SJ! The issue is nothing short of cleared up. I was skeptical and now I'm sure that larger diameter wheels will cause more headaches than trying to find a decent set of 12" tires. Or would it..... I called Canadian Tire in Trail BC, which is 75 km from where I live. They didn't have any in stock but I was told that I could come in and prepay for a set and place an order. So I went, only to find out that they are listed as 'do not order'. Turns out they've sent a large portion of their winter tire stock to Quebec, where it is now law to have them equipped on any car you plan on driving in the winter months. Can you say GRR? So..... I was told that I could probably get a set at OK Tire. Called them to see what they can do and yeah, I'm getting a set of Kumho KW11's if and when I prepay for them and add $40 for 'special order freight'. FFS*, most of their stock has been sent the way of Quebec as well. So my mission started out with the plan of buying tires from Canadian Tire for $39.99(on sale) and ended at a 2-3 week wait, prepaid for tires that cost $63.99 a piece + $40 freight. I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. At least it looks like a great tire. Loads of sipes and studdable. www.oktire.com/en/tires/TireBrandDetails.aspx?LCID=en-ca&ProductID=KW11-412*FFS: For f*ck sake
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 7, 2008 2:13:03 GMT -5
Yeah or you could grab some 13" rims off of most 80's/90's Nissans (Pulsar, Sentra, NX2000) which have the correct PCD (bolt pattern) and center bore and then shod them with 175/70R13 tires. 22.7" tall and lower your freeway RPM by about 300. I have them on a Gen2 Justy and they work great.
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Post by justyjon on Nov 7, 2008 2:30:12 GMT -5
WHOA! That changes everything. haha.
Just took a look at the 175/70R13's from the different places that I've been looking and not only do they have them in stock but they even have a few different brand options. I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the local wreckers have for 13" Nissan wheels. I;ll be driving across Canada at the end of the month. I want good traction and also, the 300RPM drop should improve mileage, yeah?
Thanks SJ
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Post by eporter123 on Nov 7, 2008 13:52:18 GMT -5
I've got some 175 70 r 13s and they're great. I bought them "lightly used" off Craigslist for $120 for 4. They still had the rubber nubs on them.
Search locally for new or used 13" tires, and you'll have tons of options.
Used tires are generally a bad idea, I would only buy ones with the rubber mold nubs still on them.
As my friend's dad always says:
"A tire is like underwear. You don't buy it used!"
Getting away from the 12 and moving on to the 13 gives you so many more options.
You're driving across Canada? What happens when your hard-to-get 12" tire blows out and you can't get a replacement for 2-3 weeks?
I am running a 1/4" Mr. Gasket wheel spacer on the rear to reduce rubbing.
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Post by justyjon on Nov 7, 2008 19:46:53 GMT -5
Project 13" winters update:
I managed to find a set of 13" Justy wheels at a local wreckers. They're in great shape. Paid $100. I'm in the 13" game. Yay. Turns out they bought 4 Justy's this past winter, knowing that they are becoming rare. Unfortunately(for me), they are all Gen 2's.
Also got a set of 1/4" wheel spacers for the rear, as per eporter's application.
Also got a near brand new set of 175/70R13 winter tires that are going to be transplanted from a friends Loyale wagon that got DOT'ed. They're advertised overall diameter is 576 millimeter or 22.677 inches. Should work!
First off, I'm going to hit the wheels with a wire brush and some black Tremclad paint.
It will all be done and installed on Monday. I'll post the results.
Guys, thanks a bunch for the valuable information. Much appreciated.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 7, 2008 21:29:36 GMT -5
Justyjon, you're in B.C. ? The next time you plan a trip to/through Seattle, let me know ahead of time. I have a large blast cabinet and would be more than happy to blast any set of wheels down to bare steel and we can repaint them on the spot with Hammerite. I did it to some VW steelies for my Gen1 and it turned out better looking than any of those alloy options sold new.
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Post by justyjon on Nov 8, 2008 2:18:31 GMT -5
SJ, I'll certainly have to take you up on that the next time I make it to the states. Heading back east(as stated in an earlier post) but I'll be back in BC by mid to late May. My sister lives in Cali and she's getting married in August. Perhaps I should drive the Justy instead of flying?! I'll bring beer! ;D Oh, what are your thoughts on these wheel spacers? Do you think they will help?(see image) eporter, do these spacers look similar to the ones you are using? The thought of using them sort of sketches me out for some reason. Made in China by Trans Dapt performance products. They're 'universal fit' for 4 by 4", 4 1/4" and 4 1/2" bolt patterns. They're also pretty chinsy feeling. Egads. I'll have to take a look tomorrow to see if the studs are long enough to compensate for the spacer. If I placed them loosely on the studs, they'd drop down an 1/8th of an inch or so. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to adhere them to the wheel or brake drum with some tape to make sure they are centered, or would that matter? With the Justy being as light as it is, any little rotating thing that is slightly off center tends to add vibration, huh? Might as well play it safe. Had to edit, forgot to add the image
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Post by eporter123 on Nov 8, 2008 3:21:43 GMT -5
Hmm... Those spacers look really generic. The ones I bought actually lined up with my 4 studs to keep the spacer centered. You definitely want anything on a wheel to be centered. Try the tires with no spacer. Mine were fine without, except for a couple spots on the way to work every day. The times I rubbed were under hard cornering. I was rubbing the tires on the inner wheelwell and on the trailing arm/whatever it's called of the rear axle. Some adjustments with the trusty BFH (Big F#$@&*% Hammer) cured most issues. This is on a gen 2. I found that the useless piece of plastic trim on the fender also rubbed. I removed that and rubbing reduced further. I really only experienced rubbing under hard corners and hard corners at the bottom of hills, under suspension compression. Still, I am happy with the spacers so far. You want to be sure that the wheel nut engages AT LEAST several threads on the stud. Justy studs are not that long to begin with. I was skeptical and kept checking my wheel nuts, and they're doing fine. Best wishes on your new tire experience! My spacers look kind of like this:
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 8, 2008 14:12:01 GMT -5
Jon, eporter is right about the spacers. The ones you showed in your picture; I bought those spacers and have a set of four in a drawer in my workshop. I chose to not use them because of the reasons eporter stated above. Where I disagree with eporter is on his suggestion to distort the trailing arms by hitting them with a hammer. I will leave it at that but for more about this idea, read here subarujusty.proboards20.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wheelsandtires&thread=162&page=1 My Gen1 uses the usual upgrade 155/80R12 tires and my Gen2 uses Yokohama 175/70R13 tires on stock Justy 13s. I haven't felt a need for any spacers and I drive spirited through the city. By the way everybody, The Tire Rack www.tirerack.com has 155/80R12 tires for $35 each
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Post by justyjon on Nov 8, 2008 15:31:10 GMT -5
eporter, SJ, thanks again. I can always depend on this forum for valuable information. It's a good feeling(and helpful to the mechanics) going into repair shops, tire stores and even brake and muffler places with a load of sizes and dimensions that will or will not work. On a few occasions I've been told something would work when I know it would not. For example: A dude at Kal Tire tried to convince me that a set of 13x5" wheels with a 4x100mm bolt pattern and 57.1mm center bore would work. I had to drag his ass out to my car, pop off the hubcap, POINT at the hub and say "Take a look". All he could say in reply was "Oh...K then." High five to the first person to answer why those wheels wouldn't work! I suppose I can't always blame these shops for their ignorance because, often times, there are NO listing for Justy parts and options. I'll try the wheels/tires without the spacers. I'll post my findings on Monday evening. I'll get it all mounted(sans spacers) and ride around hard on different terrain/slopes/corners to see what happens. ;D To sum it up: 13" Justy wheels with 175/70R13 tires, replacing 12" wheels with 145/80R12 tires on a Gen 1 Justy GL. (btw, I thought GL's were supposed to come with 13" wheels. Not always the case? Perhaps not the case with Gen 1's?). WOOHOO, can't wait until I no longer have to look for 12's. Sheesh.... Let us pray to the anti-rub gods.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 8, 2008 19:19:20 GMT -5
(btw, I thought GL's were supposed to come with 13" wheels. Not always the case? Perhaps not the case with Gen 1's?). . All Gen1 Justys had 12" wheels as standard equipment, even the GL and RS models. 13" wheels were not offered until the Gen2
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