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Post by Vågen on Sept 26, 2014 10:43:58 GMT -5
Hello all,
This is my first post. I am happy to say that in May of this year I bought a 1991 GL with 54000 miles on it! It's my "newest" car yet- my 2002 WRX had 84K on it when I bought it and my 1995 Legacy had 120K on it.
That being said, the car came with Mastercraft 165/70R13s. These are obviously NOT stock size and are horrible- the front 2 couldn't kiss President Lincoln's hair, so they have to go ASAP. I moved them to the back, which were much better off, which suggests lack of rotation, inflation issues, or something else I will figure out later. I can't find 165/65R13s anyway, so this is a problem I am happy to fix. Especially with some AA A tires.
I live in Boston metro, so I will be mounting winter tires on the 13x5 anyway, so it makes no sense to go with all-season the rest of the year. Also, I have to buy another set of rims and I have all but given up finding OEM 14s with 4x100 and the correct bore. So...
I am looking at Toyo's 195/45R15s on TireRack.com mostly because they are the narrowest summers in 15" and match the circumference pretty nicely. Which brings me to wheels:
I found a great deal on some 15x6.5 Konig Heliums (40mm offset) on Craigslist. I would prefer 15x6s, but beggars can't be choosers (unless they are forced by geometry to be!). They're quite light at 11.6 pounds each, so I'm happy with that. I am looking at the 60.1 hub centric rings, maybe the 59.1 (but that seems too small). so they'll fit the hub.
I thought to myself, "Self, you've gone and done your dead WRX proud here!" But it seemed to be too good to be true. I paused especially after reading the post: subarujusty.proboards.com/thread/165/8-wide-wheels
Here's why: I measured the offset of my 13x5 OEMs at between 45-50mm. SeattleJusty says a lot about 35mm... www.wheel-size.com/size/subaru/justy/1990/ This guy confers with me, but I don't consider this website to be authoritative at all, even if it agrees with me.
This thing about the 15x8s hitting the trailing arm with the 195s scares me. Ultima mentions the 3mm which I am fine with grabbing, but it doesn't seem like he ever came back around to say that the car was trouble-free. I know there is a big difference between a 15x6.5 and a 15x8, but I'd prefer to go on my pretty day with no fender banging necessary.
www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=165&aspect=65&diameter=13&wheelwidth=5&offset=45&width2=195&aspect2=45&diameter2=15&wheelwidth2=6.5&offset2=40 Here I show that I am 14.1mm closer to the strut with the Konigs/Toyos. I measure that there is 13mm from the 165/70R13-13x5 setup to the trailing arm. Simple math is that I need a 2mm spacer. That's assuming I am right, but I want to take into consideration the flex of the tire- which obviously at 6.5 a 195 is narrower than stretched over an 8.... but when I have people in the back seat (and surprisingly this has happened several times) I know my rally flap has been known to scrape.... so I'd like to keep 5mm wiggle room.
So by my numbers, I need 6.1mm spacer. No problem.
If I am wrong about the offset, which is very possible, I'm here: www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=165&aspect=65&diameter=13&wheelwidth=5&offset=35&width2=195&aspect2=45&diameter2=15&wheelwidth2=6.5&offset2=40 and 16.1mm off! That's significant!
So my questions are: 1. is the 5mm space for bulge too generous? (especially with a low profile tire which is likely to bulge less under weight) 2. Is it 35mm or 45mm offset? 3. Do I need new bolts for either 2mm, 6.1mm, or 16.1mm? I imagine at 16.1 that's significantly less threads for the nuts...
Any help I can get before plunking down this money would be helpful! I promise to post pictures if this works!
Kevin
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Post by indkid87 on Sept 26, 2014 12:12:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too much about tire bulge/flex. It should be minimal with a low profile stretched tires, especially in areas where they could rub.
I think 45mm is stock, I haven't measured it but my 35mm wheels are flush with the fenders.
I would suggest switching out the studs for a more common thread pitch regardless of the spacers you plan to run. Swap them for 12x1.5 so you have a much wider selection of lug nuts. You'll most likely need skinnier ones for aftermarket wheels.
-Dave
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Post by Vågen on Sept 29, 2014 5:39:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight. I don't think I'd consider 195s on a 6.5 really stretched though... the section width is wider than the rim. Are you saying that the outside diameter of the nuts could be too big, or the bolts themselves would be too wide? The annoying thing is that I'm looking for whatever setup to also work with my stock wheels for winter tires as well... though it would be nice to salvage some 13 inch alloy Nissan wheels like these: www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi
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Post by indkid87 on Sept 29, 2014 9:27:13 GMT -5
The outside diameter of the nuts will most likely be to big for modern aftermarket wheels. You'll likely need "tuner" style lugnuts in order to have clearance for the nut and socket.
I'd recommend running 13's for winter if you can find wheels. 13" snow tires are still readily available and cheap.
I'm thinking low profile 15" snows that will fit a justy would be pricey.
-Dave
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Post by Vågen on Sept 29, 2014 19:23:07 GMT -5
Gotcha on the nuts. Yeah, sorry- I thought I was pretty clear that the reason I'm trying to get these numbers right is because I want to get my 13x5s for winter and the Heliums for summer with minimal work- when I see the snowstorm on the forecast, I want to be able to get them on without having to change out of my suit. Well, not quite, but you get the point. the Ford Aspire (my first car!) has some cool alloys at 13x4.5, but I'm not willing to drill out the centers just for a half inch. These are the winters I want to do: www.sigmatires.com/tires/Detail.aspx?lineid=1223&application=Winter155/70R13. The stock circumference is closer to the 80s, even though the 80s have better selection.
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Post by Vågen on Nov 6, 2014 9:19:09 GMT -5
Here she is... I have put probably 80 miles on them since installing last night. My initial impression is that I appreciate the ability to maintain speed at cornering... I frequently felt I was going to drift sideways on left turns. The braking feels more confident. It's still too early to develop any strong opinions that wouldn't be just sheer emotional sentiment. One thing I'll say is that there is no rubbing whatsoever so far, except for my mud flap, which is entirely my own fault for half-assing the installation (and that actually deserves its own post). So... Konig Helium 15x6.5 ET40 + 7mm 4x100 54.1mm bore spacers + Toyo Proxes T1R 195/45R15 (320 AA/A 78V) = success (so far). It sure looks a hell of a lot better... but exposes how much painting I have to do in the wheel wells now! Attachments:
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Post by Vågen on Nov 12, 2014 11:06:52 GMT -5
-2mpgs. That sucks.
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Post by madmatt on Nov 13, 2014 0:26:46 GMT -5
You probably haven't driven enough to really know... MPG varies sooooo much by so many factors... were you monitoring wind conditions, # of other vehicles on the road, and proximity, exact same routes? over how many miles... I can change consumption by 10 mpg average (reading the computer output on my volvo) just by wind, road speed and driving style. They probably are increasing consumption, but how many miles did you log before? After?
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Post by Vågen on Nov 13, 2014 11:12:59 GMT -5
You probably haven't driven enough to really know... MPG varies sooooo much by so many factors... were you monitoring wind conditions, # of other vehicles on the road, and proximity, exact same routes? over how many miles... I can change consumption by 10 mpg average (reading the computer output on my volvo) just by wind, road speed and driving style. They probably are increasing consumption, but how many miles did you log before? After? Matt, I've been using FuelBear since 2007. I can log some data on here since May when I got the car at a later time. I've noticed a difference when I took the roof rack off and this is akin to putting it back on.
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Post by madmatt on Nov 14, 2014 10:21:26 GMT -5
I understand,
My point is that over a short period (couple of months of driving) it's hard to see real result in the real world, and know just what is going on.
Yesterday I did 400km in the Volvo, pulling the Justy. It was an out and back trip, heading north west. 200 there, 200 back. I averaged 17.2 US MPG there, 21.2 back, according to the computer. Cruise locked on at 110 km/hr. Was it a: the headwind, b, the change in elevation, c, the change in traffic density? Or did I accelerate faster on my way there trying to get there in time?
So, I'm not saying your tires aren't burning more fuel... they probably are. Just hard to know for sure. I always say I get 2 MGP better without the roof racks and ski box... But not sure I've ever had the real world environment that would let me make that claim.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 15:02:57 GMT -5
Here she is... I have put probably 80 miles on them since installing last night. My initial impression is that I appreciate the ability to maintain speed at cornering... I frequently felt I was going to drift sideways on left turns. The braking feels more confident. It's still too early to develop any strong opinions that wouldn't be just sheer emotional sentiment. One thing I'll say is that there is no rubbing whatsoever so far, except for my mud flap, which is entirely my own fault for half-assing the installation (and that actually deserves its own post). So... Konig Helium 15x6.5 ET40 + 7mm 4x100 54.1mm bore spacers + Toyo Proxes T1R 195/45R15 (320 AA/A 78V) = success (so far). It sure looks a hell of a lot better... but exposes how much painting I have to do in the wheel wells now! I appreciate the pic. Our cars are similar, and I just ordered a set of wheels for mine. I was having trouble finding the 13" tires and I really liked what adding larger wheels did to my '93 2WD. I went with the same wheels this time because I know they will work, and I don't mind the way they look. I am going to have them blasted and then coated dark grey though, so even though they are 1" smaller and not as "open" as yours, it will look similar from afar. The wheels I chose are 1994-1995 Ford Escort 14x4.5 wheels like in this pic of my old '93: I found a set of Yokohamas in 185/55-14 that I used to use on my old MR2 that I am planning on using with these wheels. Last time I just went with the same wheels as the 13's but in 14" - Bridgestone Potenza RE92 in 165/65-14. I always thought they looked too narrow on the wheels, and there was at least 1cm of clearance to the body and control arms. So we will see how it goes. The outside diameter is about the same - just a tad larger. Honestly I would love to go much larger as the 4WD could really use it at motorway speed, but I do not want to go with a short sidewall due to the quality of the roads I drive. 55% is already bad enough! Once they get here, I will need to bore them out as before, and then send them to the coater. I have to admit - I really like the look of these Konigs. If they came in a 14", I would try to find a set! The black on the silver 4 door looks great! Pretty much how my car looks most of the time except with a roof rack and the teeny 13"s.
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Post by Vågen on Nov 21, 2014 9:48:58 GMT -5
So turns out I need to roll my fenders I'm slicing the outside of the driver rear tire (not the passenger side, probably because of my fat ass). It's subtle, but I know it's going to get worse. Fortunately my 145/70R13 winter tires are enroute, so I have time. madmatt has a pretty cool rear suspension to get more ground clearance, but honestly I would be happier with something simpler with less customization. Maybe I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone- get rid of the rubbing and get some snow clearance. Any ideas on the easiest/least intrusive way to add height without destroying the geometry? Kevin
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Post by indkid87 on Nov 21, 2014 10:20:46 GMT -5
Where is the tire hitting?
On my car I was rubbing on the back of the rocker panel. If that's the case a lift won't do much good.
I cut off the seam on the back of the rocker and welded the hole shut. It clears my snows, but my summers rub on the top of the fender. I rolled it a bit, which helped, but it needs more.
-Dave
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Post by Vågen on Nov 21, 2014 10:58:24 GMT -5
Where is the tire hitting? On my car I was rubbing on the back of the rocker panel. If that's the case a lift won't do much good. I cut off the seam on the back of the rocker and welded the hole shut. It clears my snows, but my summers rub on the top of the fender. I rolled it a bit, which helped, but it needs more. -Dave Dave, The pain in the ass is that I do not know. I thought I was hitting the rally flap because it seems so superficial. On the tire, it's a half inch outboard/lower than the shoulder. My hunch is that it is not the rocker panel, but that's definitely the closest point. I guess that makes the most sense, as I've never felt bottomed out... but I am thinking of a great 40mph left turn that I take crossing the Charles River after a bridge that it definitely rubs... The car is so close to perfect (and the passenger tire is fine!)... I think I'll take a wooden baseball bat and a heat gun to the arch in the spring. How much do you think I can realistically add to the rear with blocks without messing up the geometry/safety/tarmac handling?
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Post by indkid87 on Nov 21, 2014 11:29:44 GMT -5
I don't know how much of a lift you can really get away with. Personally I'm not a fan of lifting justys unless you make it wider too. I've been on two wheels too many times to consider bumping my center of gravity up.
I'd try to find another solution, roll/pull the fenders.
You can find out where it's rubbing fairly easily. Put some masking tape on the tire in about the spot you think your rubbing. Then get on the bumper and rock it up and down. It should be enough to put a mark in the tape. That's all I did.
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Post by southerner on Jun 30, 2015 12:37:21 GMT -5
Pity i didn't read this before.. i've been looking at 175-50-15's ever since someone here at the forums mentioned the Smart oem tires.. they'll be a little stretched on 6.5's but nothing crazy..
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Post by Vågen on Jul 2, 2015 13:21:54 GMT -5
Pity i didn't read this before.. i've been looking at 175-50-15's ever since someone here at the forums mentioned the Smart oem tires.. they'll be a little stretched on 6.5's but nothing crazy.. It shouldn't be much of an issue on the car side (the stretching might be- but good luck finding skinny 15"s in a 4x100!). I would definitely stay under 195- it 'fits' but not without too much work and spacers. 185s? maybe. I think 175s are more realistic. I never considered them (but should have, in retrospect).
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Post by southerner on Jul 2, 2015 14:01:22 GMT -5
Just today i've changed tires, got 4 Yokohama A539's.. loving them.. the thing is.. there was an assembled 15 inch rim with a winter 195-50 and asked the clerk to see if they would fit.. they were ok, tight but ok on the front, however on the back we could not even lower the car since it was going to touch the front part of the fender, wich left me wondering.. is my suspension ok ? is it suposed to be like that or is there something wrong ? BTW, you could totally find the tires, even here wich lately feels like Cuba, i can get Hankook and Khumo on that sizes, the front tire is smaller than te rear 155-60-15 or something like that..
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Post by Vågen on Jul 2, 2015 14:14:37 GMT -5
wait you are running different sizes front and back? If it's 4wd, you can say goodbye to that rear differential.
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Post by southerner on Jul 3, 2015 10:50:06 GMT -5
i meant the smart has different sizes
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