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Post by nipper on Feb 22, 2010 17:11:07 GMT -5
Sorry, no. I haven't tested the fuel pressure yet, but I will. An interesting thing is though discovered... I attached a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold and idled the engine until it was warm. (Radiator-fan begins rotating). At idle, the vacuum seems to bounce a little up and down (might have to do with the position of the nipple I attached the gauge to), but the needle stableize when I increase RPM just a little. At higher RPM, the vacuum reading doesn't seem right at all, since it drops instantly when I go to full throttle. My latest theory, based on the above symptoms, is that the intake manifold gasket is leaking somewhere, and that the shape of both the manifold and the engine crankcase is hampering tests with starting gas (spraycan with ether and other flammable gases) to reach the leak, thereby not detectable using this method. Does this seem likely? Sincerely; Magnus. www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/vac/uum.htmThis is valid for all engines
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Post by blacklight on Feb 24, 2010 11:25:38 GMT -5
Now, my fellow Subaru-lovers. I've finally tested the engine vacuum, vacuum at which point the spluttering starts, and engine vacuum at full throttle. These tests were conducted with a warm engine, if anyone wonders. Engine at idle: Engine at the point it starts to spluttering starts: Engine at full throttle: I've also tested the fuel pressure, and can say it seems ok and doesn't seem effected by either engine rpm or throttle position. Out of coincidence, however, I discovered that the fuelpump starts working only when the oil pressure light have gone out. Fuel pressure regardless of engine rpm or throttle position: Fuel pressure remains at this point after 2 minutes after the engine (hereby also the fuelpump) have stopped. Note: The statement about which rpm the engine starts to splutter is just a guess, and I will attach a tachometer to get the correct rpm values FYI as soon as possible.
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Post by nipper on Feb 24, 2010 12:05:07 GMT -5
Low idle vacume and flickering needle with a narrow sweep is ignition or valve timing.
Engine vac at any other speed really does say anything, its only at idle that is telling.
nipper
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Post by blacklight on Feb 27, 2010 16:29:49 GMT -5
I'm considering opening up to the cambelt again to check, re-check and do it all over again. Think ferox would like that? A small thought I got yesterday was, that my father (who assembled the cylinder head about 18 years ago...) if he got the direction of the valve springs right. According to the workshop manual, they are supposed to be with the tighter spiral downward (towards the cylinders). Might check that too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2010 19:38:38 GMT -5
I'm considering opening up to the cambelt again to check, re-check and do it all over again. Think ferox would like that? Ha Ha ;D. Yes by all means, check everything you have already checked, but absolutely do not check anything else that might be causing the problem .
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Feb 28, 2010 11:12:20 GMT -5
Magnus, if you think the timing belt is off by 1/2 a cog then we must settle that point. Does anyone know if the engine would run at all if the valves were that far out(and how much distance/difference in timing would that be at the top end), and if so what the symptoms of the mistimed engine would be? My best guesses about the cambelt: - It is correct but you were not able to see the marks well enough to know.
- The top and bottom ends are not in time and this has been a spanner in the troubleshooting‒works all along.
Perhaps in your not being able to surely see the timing marks the engine is off by more or less than the half‒cog measurement. Although, if it runs at all I would expect it to run at any speed but to run quite poorly and be terribly inefficient. Or does it get to a point that there is too much or not enough fuel to go any more. Just enough time to exhaust before the stroke is over/valve closes mid‒exhaust‒stroke unless you increase the engine speed and use more fuel, but there is nothing left in the combustion chamber after the engine stops? I am back forth, I dont see it running at all, your timing is correct. Please post a few photos so we can confirm that for you. Then dismantle the head at turn the springs around. ‒Danimal
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Post by blacklight on Mar 1, 2010 11:29:24 GMT -5
Danimal:
According to the workshop manual, 1 cog off is 20 degrees, 2 cogs is 40 degrees and so on. However, it doesn't say whether these degrees are on the crankshaft or the camshaft. In either case, ½ cog would mean 10 degrees off. :/
Am I right?
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Mar 1, 2010 16:39:07 GMT -5
Magnus, If one cog is 20° then the pulley will have eighteen cogs to have 360°(which a circle must)! This must be the bottom end. The top end's driven pulley is twice as large so 'as thirty‒six cogs. Twice as close to the correct timing if it is the top end(the valves) that is the one out by 1/2 cog. Imagine in each of the following pictures that the crankshaft is lined up right on the mark! The top end in time: Now, is it out by half a cog? : Or half of a cog?: Perhaps some boffin will help us out as I haven't the time to calculate precisely but it seems as though the engine may have the valves opening and closing long enough during the correct stroke of the pistons to idle roughly at only 5° or less out, no? Have I at the least illustrated how necessary it is to have these settings exact? It still turns over on its own because you turned the distributor to set the spark back into time with the pistons after the belt was installed and the valves' clearances were set. If it isn't too much trouble, remove the belt's cover and then the accessory pulley and check the timing marks. If we can confirm that it is off by 1/2 cog then we must put 'er straight and if not it wont be too much work to put the pulley and cover back on. ‒Danimal
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Post by blacklight on Mar 9, 2010 17:55:55 GMT -5
Um... Question to all you Justy-users... Is your cylinders oriented like this?
Distributor-(3)-(2)-(1)-camshaft pulley
I have a cylinderhead that I've studied, and some stuff stated in the workshop manual doesn't seem right at all. If I align the little hole in the camshaft driven pulley with the plastic notch in the cambelt cover, the camshaft is 8 teeth (80 degrees) past on the exhauststroke for cylinder 1 (closest to camshaft pulley). :S At the same alignment though, cylinder 3 is at TDC on it's exhauststroke.
However, there is another timing mark on the camshaft itself. If I turn it to this timing mark, the cylinder 1 is at compression TDC (of course, 180 degrees opposite, cylinder 1 is at exhaust TDC).
My conclusion from this, is that the hole in the camshaft driven pulley represents the exhaust TDC on cylinder 3, not cylinder 1 as the book indicates. This is confirmed by temporarily installing a crankshaft to an engineblock that I have. After that, I aligned the timingmark on the camshaft drivepulley (the one on the crankshaft end) and checked if cylinder 1 (closest to camshaft pulley side) was close to TDC. It wasn't. However, cylinder 3 was at TDC. This leads me to belive that the book is wrong, or the camshaft pulley is marked faulty. Hence, I wanted to know if the cylinders on Justy-engines is oriented the same.
I can post pictures if someone wants to go deeper in this.
Sincerely; Magnus.
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Mar 9, 2010 18:13:48 GMT -5
Is your cylinders oriented like this? Distributor-(3)-(2)-(1)-camshaft pulley Yes! Firing order is 1 3 2 1 3.... I can post pictures if someone wants to go deeper in this. I would love to. Danimal
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Post by RedRooJusty on Mar 9, 2010 19:48:32 GMT -5
Magnus, when I slung a new timing belt on my machine I recall noticing that (when aligned to the timing marks) the distributor rotor was clocked 180 degrees away from #3 firing position, this would also mean that #3 was @tdc and ready to start stroke-1 (intake).
-RRJ
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Post by blacklight on Mar 10, 2010 2:34:18 GMT -5
Is your cylinders oriented like this? Distributor-(3)-(2)-(1)-camshaft pulley Yes! Firing order is 1 3 2 1 3.... I can post pictures if someone wants to go deeper in this. I would love to. Danimal No no, I ment the physical position of the cylinders, not the fireing order. Okay. Uploading pics ASAP. // Magnus.
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Post by blacklight on Mar 10, 2010 12:05:10 GMT -5
Here you go, Danimal. Today, I tried something a bit different. I aligned the 0 degree timingmark on the crankshaft pulley (alternator pulley) with the timingmark on the waterpump cover. Then I removed the cambelt and aligned the timingmark on the camshaft for cylinder 1 (closest to camshaft pulley) with the timingmark on the cylinderhead. It seems to be right now. I haven't tried starting the engine yet, since I don't have the exhaust system mounted, and I'm gonna change the ignition coil into a high-performance one. Sincerely, Magnus.
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Post by badshah on Mar 10, 2010 14:37:05 GMT -5
Hello there, I am not sure if there are any timing marks on the water pump. I have an EF10 too, and I used the marks as indicated on the image. Essentially the crankshaft mark should point downwards aligned with the marks on the front cover, while the camshaft mark should point straight up aligned to the mark on the platic back cover. By the way I have a J10 car and not the Domingo van, but I don't think there would be any differences in engine as engine number is same. Attachments:
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Post by blacklight on Mar 10, 2010 15:04:56 GMT -5
Hello there, I am not sure if there are any timing marks on the water pump. I have an EF10 too, and I used the marks as indicated on the image. Essentially the crankshaft mark should point downwards aligned with the marks on the front cover, while the camshaft mark should point straight up aligned to the mark on the platic back cover. By the way I have a J10 car and not the Domingo van, but I don't think there would be any differences in engine as engine number is same. But... How do you Justy-users set the timing, if not by the mark on the waterpump cover, and the ones on the crankshaft pulley? :S //Magnus.
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Post by Sævar Örn on Mar 10, 2010 15:26:32 GMT -5
Cyl. 3 at absolute top dead center is one way to do it
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Post by blacklight on Mar 16, 2010 7:30:04 GMT -5
Ok. Now, I've put it all back together. I warmed up the engine and tried reving it. Same problem... Btw. I think I forgot to mention that I have spark plug caps with built in 1000 k ohm resistance, to reduce radio interference. (This is most likely made for engines with fuelinjection so that interference from the ignition system is reduced.) Can this have some effect? Anyone got more suggestions? Summary for those who doesn't wanna spend the next 2 hours reading through the thread: -Checked ignition timing. OK. -Changed sparkplug and distributor wires. OK. -Changed distributor cap and rotor. OK. -Changed ignition coil into a high performance one. OK. -Changed fuel filter. OK. -Changed fuelpump. Seems ok, but there might be some sort of module on the + side of this that acts as a FPCU, that doesn't show up on the wiring diagram. -Cleared out the fuellines using compressed air. OK. -Checked for leaks in the fuelsystem. OK. -Cleaned out the carburetor throughly. OK. -Checked compression. OK. -Checked idling vacuum. Looks to be a bit low, but not critically. -Looked for leaks in intake manifold. OK. -Checked cam timing. OK. -Checked exhaust system for clogging. OK.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Mar 16, 2010 9:55:50 GMT -5
I think I forgot to mention that I have spark plug caps with built in 1000 k ohm resistance, to reduce radio interference. (This is most likely made for engines with fuelinjection so that interference from the ignition system is reduced.) Can this have some effect? Magnus, I have no knowledge of the Columbuss(EF10) specifically. On Justys, the spark delivery parts (plugs + wires) have only one listing for both carb or MPEFI. Are the spark plug resistor-caps standard equipment on the Columbuss? I recall resistor-plugs to have the resistor in the "core" of the plug, not a cap. You must be wondering about them to bring it up. I know many other types of engines use resistor-plugs and or radio-suppressing wires. Having resistor-plugs on an ignition system not designed for it, could result in a very poor spark, but I do find the OEM Columbuss/Domingo/Sumo to actually have resistor plugs already. www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,175416,parttype,7212,a,www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B1986%2BSUBARU -RRJ
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Post by blacklight on Mar 16, 2010 14:07:24 GMT -5
RedRooJusty Thanks for the input. The car already have NGK BPR6ES-11 plugs installed, and according to multiple sources, these already have native resistance from the beginning. If anyone wonders, yes, NGK BPR6ES-11 is a recommended part in the workshop manual for the E10's EF10 version too. Gonna try installing some other sparkplug wires tomorrow, and see what the result might be. I swear to whatever is ruling this world, that if it's really this simple, I'll... Darn it. I can't come up with something... //Magnus.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Mar 16, 2010 15:15:29 GMT -5
Magnus, you mention "-Changed ignition coil into a high performance one. OK.", what is the resistance of the the new coil? If you still have the OEM ignition coil, toss it back in. You have gone this far -why not right.
I know I have three (all identical black) universal ignition coils on my shelf that all read as very different resistance, and man one does not perform like the other in the same vehicle.
-RRJ
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