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Post by thatguy420 on Nov 22, 2016 15:38:33 GMT -5
Hello all and thanks ahead for the assist;
I have a lot of questions so hopefully this won't get too convoluded, I have an 90' 5spd EFI model I ran with a blown head gasket like an idiot. Got the engine pulled and into the shop.
Head service outfit found that the head is cracked 8( When I asked about having it welded/brazed he said it would probably still leak so given this is accurate are there any good(also inexpensive) sources for another EFI head?
A custom engine shop tore into the bottom end and apparently the previous owners didn't much care for oil changes as the crankshaft will need to machined down a bit along with the need to bore over the cylinders which of course means new pistons/rings.
Should I have it rebuilt or is there a better engine that would fit and could be adapted to the transmission without getting too ridiculous in the modification department? Diesel an outside option(unlikely I know but figured I'd ask)?
If I do go the rebuild route(Gen II block) anyone have a step for step on all of the engine components that should be modified for better operation and reliability? ie oil filter adapter to size up extending oil change life and the like. Part #'s and resources appreciated!
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Post by dez on Nov 23, 2016 10:01:38 GMT -5
I was thinking a diesel 3cyl Kubota motor would be awesome but with the small clutch the Justy has I don't think it would hold up. I believe www.rockauto.com has remanned efi heads.
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Post by thatguy420 on Nov 23, 2016 12:20:09 GMT -5
Heya Dez thanks for that; hadn't occurred to me to check out rockauto; is it the size of the clutch or the quality of the clutch that would make it an impossibility?
Also, what's the max bore you can put on the gen II blocks while keeping it structurally sound?
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Post by gearheadeh on Nov 24, 2016 10:28:50 GMT -5
I was thinking a diesel 3cyl Kubota motor would be awesome but with the small clutch the Justy has I don't think it would hold up. I believe www.rockauto.com has remanned efi heads. Been thinking about a Kubota swap. hope you do it, the clutch disc and pressure plate can be upgraded, got one done myself, you send him the used disc and a good plate and he tweeks the plate and puts carbon material on the disc.
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Post by gearheadeh on Nov 24, 2016 10:30:19 GMT -5
Heya Dez thanks for that; hadn't occurred to me to check out rockauto; is it the size of the clutch or the quality of the clutch that would make it an impossibility? Also, what's the max bore you can put on the gen II blocks while keeping it structurally sound? I would worry about making sure you actually have pistons for a particular bore before boring it out!
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Post by thatguy420 on Nov 25, 2016 13:42:03 GMT -5
Good point with the pistons, gearheadeh do you have contact info for the clutch upgrade? think the used one will be fine or modding a new clutch prefferable? I'm going to start poking around and see what I can find for a 3 cyl diesel, if it's reasonably do-able I'm in!
If you get a line on a good engine in the NW lemme know! Do I need to worry about fuel pump, gas tank, etc for a diesel swap?(newb if it wasn't obvious)
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Post by dez on Nov 25, 2016 14:00:36 GMT -5
For the Diesel Swap, Obvious things, Your going to need an Engine to Transmission adapter and conversion flywheel, I don't believe you'd have to modify the Fuel pump or fuel tank at all. Motor mounts and space (Space between lower crossmember and hood, as well as firewall to radiator support and from Transmission bellhousing to passengers side fender.) are going to be the hardest parts. The radiator might need to be swapped out but The 3cyl equipped motors we have in a few pieces of equipment use pretty small radiators.
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Post by gearheadeh on Nov 26, 2016 9:58:06 GMT -5
For the Diesel Swap, Obvious things, Your going to need an Engine to Transmission adapter and conversion flywheel, I don't believe you'd have to modify the Fuel pump or fuel tank at all. Motor mounts and space (Space between lower crossmember and hood, as well as firewall to radiator support and from Transmission bellhousing to passengers side fender.) are going to be the hardest parts. The radiator might need to be swapped out but The 3cyl equipped motors we have in a few pieces of equipment use pretty small radiators. I did not look to see if you have a 1st gen carb or a 2nd gen with efi....anyway.....1st gens had a smaller rad but they were carb which is good because you do not want the high fuel pressure from an efi intank fuel pump. 1st gens had an external low pressure carb type pump.the 1st gens are about 4 inchs shorter in the front end so the width of the motor will be more cramped and this is why they used a smaller rad. So, the besty would be to use a 2nd gen and take out the efi fuel pump which runs at around 45 psi.
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Post by gearheadeh on Nov 26, 2016 10:12:48 GMT -5
Good point with the pistons, gearheadeh do you have contact info for the clutch upgrade? think the used one will be fine or modding a new clutch prefferable? I'm going to start poking around and see what I can find for a 3 cyl diesel, if it's reasonably do-able I'm in! If you get a line on a good engine in the NW lemme know! Do I need to worry about fuel pump, gas tank, etc for a diesel swap?(newb if it wasn't obvious) Yes, from my experience, you would be lucky to find any new pistons to rebuild with ...let alone a large overbore set. Here is the link for the Clutch rebuild company, good guys to deal with. www.euro-drive.com/
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Post by cellahno on Nov 26, 2016 11:08:18 GMT -5
When I rebuilt my engine last month, neither my builder nor I was able to source new stock diameter pistons. So you may be SOL on the overbore sizes. I was just flat out lucky that the tolerances on my used ones were still really good and there wasn't hardly any ring play.
Another thing to check is the condition of the balance shaft bearings. Again, neither my builder nor myself was able to source a set of these and I had to just polish them up a bit and go with it...
Lastly, the oil pump housing. Finding a new oil pump is a little tough, I had to source mine from ebay, but it was factory new and worked. What was tough was the housing the pump goes in. It got all chewed up when the previous owner offroaded it and got a bunch of dirt in the oil. (Fenders were completely filler with mud too). So I ended up having to have my machine shop go through and condition it as best they could. It's also possible to bore out and sleeve the hole in that housing where the shaft of the center oil pump piece rides. That's the most critical spot and what really got chewed up on mine..
Good luck!
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Post by thatguy420 on Nov 26, 2016 12:16:57 GMT -5
When I rebuilt my engine last month, neither my builder nor I was able to source new stock diameter pistons. So you may be SOL on the overbore sizes. I was just flat out lucky that the tolerances on my used ones were still really good and there wasn't hardly any ring play. Another thing to check is the condition of the balance shaft bearings. Again, neither my builder nor myself was able to source a set of these and I had to just polish them up a bit and go with it... Lastly, the oil pump housing. Finding a new oil pump is a little tough, I had to source mine from ebay, but it was factory new and worked. What was tough was the housing the pump goes in. It got all chewed up when the previous owner offroaded it and got a bunch of dirt in the oil. (Fenders were completely filler with mud too). So I ended up having to have my machine shop go through and condition it as best they could. It's also possible to bore out and sleeve the hole in that housing where the shaft of the center oil pump piece rides. That's the most critical spot and what really got chewed up on mine.. Good luck! Did you run across these guys? www.cleggengine.com/engine-rebuild-kits/subaru/subaru-1-2l-ef12-justy-9v-sohc-87-94-engine-rebuild-kits.htmlI've never dealt with Clegg so I don't know how they are quality wise but they've got .2 and .4 overbored rebuild kits and re-ring kits. Unfortunately as you said below no balance shaft bearings, that and the oil pump cover seem to be the unicorn finds for these things, does anyone have specs on the aforementioned bearing? mabe it'd be worth while to have a bunch made... Thanks cellanho!
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Post by cellahno on Nov 26, 2016 12:24:42 GMT -5
I had seen the re-ring kit but not the rebuild kit with the pistons, that's cool! That kit doesn't list the balance shaft bearing from what I read, but it might be worth it to call and find out. I would also check to see if the pistons include wrist pins.
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Post by thatguy420 on Nov 30, 2016 11:05:56 GMT -5
So wudya guys think? .20 or .40 overbore? pro's and con's appreciated. Also you guys think 20 hp is going to be enough oomph out of a diesel engine? (what I've found so far D1105 out of a cummins onan generator)
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Post by dez on Nov 30, 2016 14:05:17 GMT -5
Generator diesel motors are cammed for a specific rpm, you won't get the performance you need. It can be done with cam swap and injection pump work, and possibly injectors
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Post by dez on Nov 30, 2016 14:33:53 GMT -5
I would do .020, don't want to overbore in case something happens in the future. I believe the machinist would charge more to go .040
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 2, 2016 10:15:32 GMT -5
So wudya guys think? .20 or .40 overbore? pro's and con's appreciated. Also you guys think 20 hp is going to be enough oomph out of a diesel engine? (what I've found so far D1105 out of a cummins onan generator) NO, although Diesels make more torque, 20 hp is not enough, I think that you should try for a 45 to 50 hp Diesel.
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Post by thatguy420 on Dec 2, 2016 11:40:57 GMT -5
Sounds spensive'; any ballpark for the conversion on 3 cyl diesel?
Would it be reasonable to expect to get that kind of gains using the same D1105 Kubota engine and doing the gut work/cam swap mentioned above?
Given the sounds of the situation am I right in thinking it'd be best (also expensive obviously) to start with an older motor needing servicing/rebuild rather that pulling apart a running engine. Thanks ahead.
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 3, 2016 10:45:43 GMT -5
Diesels love to get a Turbo, unlike a Gas which will detonate. The only thing holding you back is the head bolts being able to keep the head gasket intact. See if you can get a MLS multi layer steel head gasket and head studs. Then boost it
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Post by thatguy420 on Dec 20, 2016 8:04:32 GMT -5
Alright fella's so for the time being my main focus is to get the ol' petrol engine rebuilt; I've been back and forth with Clegg about their rebuild kits;
so as you know $214.46 for the full kit(Timing kit(Belt and tensioner) $31.12); now these are just basic non forged pistons which I guess is neither here nor there but the gasket set includes a cork seal for the oil pan which from what I understand is shit, they'll sell the pistons and rings alone for $84.71. what do? My first thought is to get a .02 set and source the gaskets but that could prove difficult... They only have one set of .04 over pistons but no rings for them(discontinued) could they be sourced or should they be avoided?
I peeked in at an outfit called Cometic Gasket Inc for the possibility of getting hold of some custom MLS or other good quality material gaskets; is this stupid for this application? would anyone have any interest in getting some quality gaskets if they require a batch rather than one set?
I've got a list started to run by the engine builder I'm using; such as the oil housing mod and such as I comb the database but If anyone has suggestions I'm wide open.
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Post by thatguy420 on Jan 11, 2017 16:30:40 GMT -5
Alrighty as of today I've commited to a bulk purchase of kits/parts from Clegg(gasoline rebuild)... really nothing more on that topic
At this point focused back on the idea of a kubota diesel conversion, been in touch with a fella who's sitting on a 1400cc Kubota(Largest 3 cyl available from what I gather) still in the process of asking questions trying to figure transport etc. here's the lowdown in his own words,
"was used in a fishboat to power a large refrigeration system , it was heat exchanger cooled so there is no radiator It has a marine exhaust manifold but could be used in a vehicle as is or changed to a regular manifold. It was maintained mechanically but is not the prettiest. It runs fine but needs at least a rear crankshaft seal. I purchased it to use on the generator which is immediatley behind it in the picture . I have run out of room in my garage and have many more projects than I can finish. It has a variable speed injection pump suitable for use as a vehicle throttle unlike many of the constant speed engines you might run into. I am a bit of a generator hobbiest specializing in Onan and kubota diesel sets. I have experience shipping generators to the US, and have sent a couple to Florida via YRC"
To whit my response,
"given the hobbyist nature of your use of these engines maybe you would be able to help answer a couple of questions. What is the effective HP of this engine doing a conversion online from kw I came up with something around 30hp which seems a bit low given the displacement, do you feel this engine would need a different crankshaft in order to achieve 'vehicle' speeds and output?"
aaand...
"I want to say that I believe your estimate of the engine power is fairly close, maybe a bit low but in the ballpark. The typical torque of a diesel engine is probably 30-50% higher than a similar gas powered engine of similar displacement. I believe the maximum practical engine speed for this engine is 3600 rpm give or take a couple hundred. This would be the same for any industrial ie non vehicular engine. Even OEM diesels like VW do not like to rev much more than that. The saving grace in your plan might be the transmission in the Justy which I believe is a CVT, I believe that it would react to the available torque and simply shift to its upper range of cones or what ever it uses , sooner. In a standard transmission scenario it might mean starting in second gear rather than first. The experience I have with a VW diesel which had a gas transmission installed was that you ended up shifting sooner. I do not know how many hours are on the engine certainly hundreds possibly low thousands , It has a Murphy switch-guage instrument panel but I do not know if the hour meter was present or working , i suspect not, suffice to say that it has a fair number of hours on it. I believe it has had regular oil and filter changes, it came with a box of both oil and air filters to pass on. I believe the injectors have been rebuilt and possibly the water pump replaced. Beyond that i do not know. It came with a flywheel, an SAE flywheel housing, and a coupling plate, some of which might be of use to you. I would expect that it would be a good idea to pull the oil pan to check the bearing clearances and replace the front and rear engine seals while it is apart."
I know it's long winded but trying to paraphrase would be a little mentally labor intensive, guy seems really cool and obviously fairly knowledgeable, going through with this basically is going to become a money pit lesson in diesel mechanics which will be a long process but I'm interested enough in learning I don't mind a long game project especially if it comes together this thing will be pretty bad ass(in my own humble opinion; very well could be a cluster-f#*k but hey live and learn) anyone with diesel experience that can second the information contained?
I have yet to find out the dimensions so as to find out how tight a fit, I know the weight is wayyy up there 12Xkg I believe I saw looking up the model... but planning to lift and reinforce the vehicle it should be workable... any thoughts appreciated; throw it at the wall see what sticks.
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