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Post by jaredv on Jan 6, 2015 19:59:44 GMT -5
hey all, i posted on here about a year ago about my thermostat and got some good info so i'm back now with a crippling problem. i have a 93 justy with the 1.2 2 wheel drive. i changed my oil today and literally 2 blocks from home my car wouldn't go any further. i was at a light and when it turned green i shifted into 1st and pushed the gas and heard this terrible grinding sound, like a chain being dragged on the ground almost. there's nothing hanging or anything but it sounds like something in the transmission either came loose or the whole thing is shot. i have no idea but it's my only transportation and the tow dude said it could be the tranny or the throwout bearing. any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. thanks ill be checking back all night hoping to hear something. i'm going to be watching tv and drowning my sorrows:( jared
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Post by madmatt on Jan 7, 2015 9:07:25 GMT -5
Honestly... Sounds like the wheel hub. The front hubs are known to strip out so the axle just spins inside. Get someone to watch the nut in the center when you let the clutch out. if it spins and the car stays still... there's your problem. Alternatively you can jack the car up on stands, and let the the clutch out... generally it will hold with no load. Easy fix (relatively) you'll need a new hub, and probably axle shaft. Matt Edit (I'll add I believe the hubs strip from poor installation practices... probably installing the belville washers backwards, and subsequent loose fit, wobbling around. I could be wrong, but I've never had one go bad, and I pound on the car )
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Post by Mato393 on Jan 7, 2015 11:40:22 GMT -5
Does the car moving when the noise started or not?
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 12:57:43 GMT -5
thanks for the responses. i've got a guy that offered to come over and take a look later today. never met him, just someone from a facebook classifieds in my area, hopefully he isn't planning on stealing the car because he won't get far. i will keep the hubs in mind. and no when it happened i was just getting ready to turn right at an intersection from a stopped position.
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 14:22:33 GMT -5
madmat now that i think about it even after i had my tires balanced and rotated the car still shook around a bit until i got up past 55. could that be because the axel and hub where just bouncing around?
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Post by madmatt on Jan 7, 2015 14:42:55 GMT -5
Hard to say...
Maybe.
It's not that they "bounce around" as provided the nut is still on they are torqued, but the load isn't put on the conical washer properly, and that could allow for the smallest bit of movement...
If they are stripped... you can pretty much diagnose this yourself and very easily with a partner.
In gear, parking brake, release clutch pedal... watch nuts in center of hub. Only one (or likely only one) will turn due to the open differential. so check both sides.
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 16:14:20 GMT -5
will do. should i give it any gas? or let the clutch all the way out so it stalls?
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jan 7, 2015 17:28:09 GMT -5
if it stalls its not the hubs.
stalling happens when you physically force the motor to a stop. And if that happend with the above mentioned test, then the hubs are holding.
Can you provide some more information?
Can you put the car in every gear, with the car running?
does the car make any sound at idle in neutral? what about when you push the clutch pedal down? anything? -if nothing changes with the pedal depressed, and the car isnt making odd noises at idle its no the throwout bearing. you can double check this by removing the rubber cover on the pivot fork and having someone operate the clutch while looking at the throwout bearing moving about.
dtripped hubs are much more common in 4wd cars than 2wd. basically what happens is the tire wont turn for one reason or another yet the axle had enough torque to blow out the splines inside the hub. if you raise the vehicle and take off the spindle nut and 4 bolts that hold the hub to the rotor it will slide right off without messing with the brakes. that will tell you instantly if its a hub or not. metal shavings will be everywhere.
also where are you located?
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Post by Mato393 on Jan 7, 2015 17:33:47 GMT -5
will do. should i give it any gas? or let the clutch all the way out so it stalls? Try slowly depressing clutch until it start making noise (if idle was not enough than use gas pedal too) to reduce plausible damage on axle...
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Post by madmatt on Jan 7, 2015 19:12:34 GMT -5
our op says it made ugly noises and wouldn't go any further.
very unlikely its a throw out bearing... that would have little to any effect once the clutch was released.
could be transmission... but I've yet to hear of someone buggering the tranny to that extent unless they had a turbo...
check the hubs.
and pulling the nuts that hold the rotor on are unlikely to do anything as i have always needed at the very least a big hammer to remove a rotor from a hub on these cars.
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 20:33:27 GMT -5
i will have to write all this down and check it tomorrow. its 5:22 and already too dark to do anything and my computer only works if it's plugged in. i live in eastern oregon...if someone is located near me come on by. i'll provide the drinks and dinner. what i can answer is when it happened i tried 1st, 2nd, and reverse and none of those were operable. i didn't think to try anything else because i was on an uphill slope and probably would have stalled trying to start in 3rd or higher. the only noise that is new is when i press the gas while in gear. unfortunately i live in an apartment and don't have the storage space for my floor jack and stands and all my tools so it's all back at my mom's house in portland (3 hours away), so i'm pretty much limited to basically zero tools. i have a drill with a bunch of bits and a socket wrench with the socket that fits my oil plug. everything else was stolen back in july. i really appreciate the input and hopefully i will get this resolved. it'd be a shame for another trusty justy to end up in the junk yard
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 22:21:12 GMT -5
here's an update. the guy who messaged me on facebook just left. we ruled out the hub thing. it is either the clutch the throwout bearing or the transmission. with the hood open and him working the clutch the sound is clearly coming from the point where the clutch meets the transmission. he says it should be fairly easy to fix just time consuming. so now i need to find a driveway to work in as my apartment complex won't let me do it here, obviously. and a floorjack and stands and the tools to take everything apart.
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Post by madmatt on Jan 7, 2015 23:11:08 GMT -5
Jaredv,
Does the car move at all when you release the clutch pedal?, pull forward slowly? or just nothing?
you said "2 blocks from home my car wouldn't go any further" do you literally mean it would not move, or you stopped driving it?
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Post by madmatt on Jan 7, 2015 23:16:36 GMT -5
Throw-out bearing = real noise only when you foot is on the clutch. maybe a rattle, but nothing terrible with your foot off the clutch, car still goes with no problem
cooked/worn clutch = not much "noise" car slowly moves forward as you release clutch pedal, often bad noises associated if rivets dragging on the pressure plate or flywheel
busted up clutch center = nothing, nadda, zilch. bad noises all the time
Transmission = depends what's done...
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Post by jaredv on Jan 7, 2015 23:24:15 GMT -5
doesn't move at all. no noise unless i am releasing the clutch. we put it in gear with the car off and pushed it backward and you could hear clicking coming from the area where the clutch meets the transmission
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Post by madmatt on Jan 8, 2015 15:34:55 GMT -5
Well...
I was hoping for you... sorry.
So it's very unlikely it's the actual transmission. Again, not impossible, but unlikely.
Hopefully the clutch disc has ruptured the center, or something mundane like that.
At this point you are probably looking at removing the motor and transmission. They do come out separately, but it's almost as much work if not more to pull them apart while in the car.
You can drop the transmission out the bottom with some fidgeting (in fact you can drop the motor and transmission out the bottom, but you need to get the car pretty high, higher then standard 2 ton axle stands will get you...)
But let's again review so we're not missing something easy.
answer the following in order so we don't misread:
Car running in neutral: noise? no noise?
Car running in neutral clutch depressed: noise? no noise?
Car in gear, clutch depressed: noise? no noise?
Car in gear, releasing clutch, without putting your foot on the accelerator: motor slows down and makes ugly noises? or no change in rpm and makes ugly noises?
Car in gear, clutch fully released: makes ugly noises and tries to move forward? makes ugly noises and doesn't do anything?
Spongebob asked if you can shift gears... can you?: not running? running with the clutch depressed (this is an important one for is it clutch or is it transmission)
Probably we can't do much other then say maybe this or maybe that without being there...
You say you had tools... can you pull a motor comfortably?
I have bets on just the clutch, but I'm not certain.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jan 8, 2015 17:51:24 GMT -5
If you are three hours from home in portland its highly likely you are either in school at OSU, U of O or in seattle.
if youre in seattle let me know. im local and might have some time to help this weekend.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jan 8, 2015 17:53:15 GMT -5
one really definitive test is..
with the car off, can you put it in gear? Yes or no?
assume yes
with it in gear can you start the car with the clutch pedal depressed? Yes or no
assume yes
did the car lurch forward when you tried to start it? if yes, broken clutch or clutch cable issue
if no, no idea until i see more info
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Post by jaredv on Jan 9, 2015 16:58:51 GMT -5
okay matt here's the list with answers
Car running in neutral: noise? no noise? NO NOISE
Car running in neutral clutch depressed: noise? no noise? NO NOISE
Car in gear, clutch depressed: noise? no noise? NO NOISE
Car in gear, releasing clutch, without putting your foot on the accelerator: motor slows down and makes ugly noises? or no change in rpm and makes ugly noises? AS I RELEASE THE CLUTCH IT STARTS MAKING THE UGLY NOISE, MOTOR DOESN'T SEEM TO SLOW BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY WAY OF ACTUALLY KNOWING THE RPM'S. NO GUAGE. I WOULD LEAN TOWARDS THE NO CHANGE IN RPM AND MAKES NOISE THOUGH
Car in gear, clutch fully released: makes ugly noises and tries to move forward? makes ugly noises and doesn't do anything? I'M HESITANT TO FULLY RELEASE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DO ANY FURTHER DAMAGE BUT AS I RELEASE IT IT MAKES UGLY GRINDING NOISE AND DOESN'T MOVE. HAVEN'T FULLY RELEASED THOUGH SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD TRY TO MOVE OR NOT.
edit i just went out to check spongebobs questions and it does kind of move but not really a lurch. i'd explain it as an earthquake that was so subtle you aren't sure if you actually felt it or imagined it
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Post by jaredv on Jan 9, 2015 17:32:19 GMT -5
spongebob- i live in hermiston, near pendleton. all of your assumptions are correct except the lurching forward. it doesn't really lurch but it did kind of move, barely. like the kind of earthquake you aren't sure you felt or imagined.
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