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Post by Vågen on Oct 27, 2014 10:13:51 GMT -5
Anyone know of a good site to find >10mm spacers? Perhaps an old Nissan performance page? The hub-centric spacers were easy to obtain for my Konig Heliums, and I'm excited to get them on and post pictures!
I'm thinking 5mm might do the trick, but I'm going to try the washers test this weekend to make sure. Anyone else use 195s on a 15x6.5 setup? I know the trailing arms will rub, but I can't find real numbers anywhere.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Oct 28, 2014 10:02:39 GMT -5
i found that my 175/70/13's rubbed the rear forward most edge of the tire on the chassis itself. with a simple spacer it would have cleared no problem. i also "radiused" my fenders in front and behind the tire to give it extra clearance.
you might be the only person with a 195 tire. also if you arent hell bent on hubcentric spacers, vato-zone sells 5mm spacers off the shelf for like 10 bucks. might want to consider new wheel studs too since they are so easy to replace.
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Post by Vågen on Oct 29, 2014 8:09:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up! I know 195 is pretty wide. I would have preferred more narrow, but I wanted some AA A 15s and this was the smallest I could get that still fit the circumference.
I bought the rims off Craigslist (would also have preferred skinnier than 6.5, but the price was too good) with 205/55s which when I deflated them enough to fit in, the rim definitely rubbed (I'm not sure how the tire will rub, as the offset is 40mm instead of 45). I had a good experience with Konigs on my WRX, so I figured that there are far worse brands I could have gone with.
It's all fun as long as I can get these spacers figured out. I have read that I could get what are essentially hubcentrics for spacers as well, which would have whatever the bore is of the spacer and the 59.2mm inside. I'd have to get them in the thickness of the spacer or slightly less. Any idea if such a thing exists or is easily manufacturable?
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Post by sp0ngebob on Oct 29, 2014 9:55:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up! I know 195 is pretty wide. I would have preferred more narrow, but I wanted some AA A 15s and this was the smallest I could get that still fit the circumference.
I bought the rims off Craigslist (would also have preferred skinnier than 6.5, but the price was too good) with 205/55s which when I deflated them enough to fit in, the rim definitely rubbed (I'm not sure how the tire will rub, as the offset is 40mm instead of 45). I had a good experience with Konigs on my WRX, so I figured that there are far worse brands I could have gone with.
It's all fun as long as I can get these spacers figured out. I have read that I could get what are essentially hubcentrics for spacers as well, which would have whatever the bore is of the spacer and the 59.2mm inside. I'd have to get them in the thickness of the spacer or slightly less. Any idea if such a thing exists or is easily manufacturable? for clarity i meant that the REAR tires rubbed on my car. at lock the 175's cleared with no issue. the rears are really inset into the fenders. might want to look at that. as for the spacer, i thought the front and rear were different sized hub rings and that the front were the only load bearing ones. if thats true and you are struggling to find a set of spacers, id get some spacers that are significantly smaller than what you need and have a machine shop hog them out to what you want. anyone with a mill and an hour should be able to run two of those for you. or 4 if im wrong about the front and rear hubs being different
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Post by Vågen on Oct 29, 2014 20:37:55 GMT -5
So here is an update: My 195/45R15 Toyo Proxes are now mounted and balanced on my 15x6.5 Konig Heliums with the 73/59.2 hub centric spacers. The fronts fit perfectly fine and look fantastic! I need to remind myself that those tiny calipers are there for a reason: for my snow wheels! The back has proven to be a bit trickier, and maybe this can be helpful for anyone looking for information in the future: 1. The rear wheels on the 1991 Justy are not hub centered! It's true, the hub diameter is approximately 45mm diameter, which is smaller than anything I can find (the smallest I am seeing is 54.1) and is quite shallow. 2. Using some 12mm washers stacked on top of each other I found that 5mm rubbed, but 8mm cleared the trailing arm. I will be switching my lugs to 1.5 pitch and obviously 8mm longer 3. Anyone know if they make cone shaped nuts that are open-ended? I want to be able to take off the spacers and put on the stock rims come winter time, and I know I will be clamping down further and do not want to have to change the lugs twice/year. Any advice on centering the wheel, then? I plan on buying 8mm 4x100 wheel spacers for the rear, and most likely in 54.1 (smallest I can find). There is a small indentation in the drum plate which is 59.2mm and I assume there is a ridge on the back of the steelies so that it does not need to be hub centric... I don't want to leave this up to guessing it's centered if I can avoid it. Even something temporary, that I can remove once the bolts are tight and then I pop the center cap back on. Attachments:
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Post by madmatt on Oct 29, 2014 22:05:59 GMT -5
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Post by gearheadeh on Oct 30, 2014 1:31:19 GMT -5
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Post by Vågen on Oct 30, 2014 11:42:22 GMT -5
You guys are great! I ended up purchasing lug bolts and nuts today bolts are 15mm longer (all I wanted was 7), but I went with the same knurl and M12-1.25 (I don't want to mess up my car if someone lazily swaps the fronts and rears).
Part: Dorman 610-404 46mm (Amazon incorrectly says these are 1.5- everywhere else, including manufacturer website says 1.25)
The nuts are open ended so that I will not encounter any problems when I take the summer wheels and spacers off I can put the steel winters back on with no problem.
Part: Dorman 611-065
This project is costing me more time than I would have expected, but it's cool.
The spacers I went with is 7mm and from Ebay. I went with the 54.1 bore, because that's the smallest I could get (?) and it was cheap: 2 wheel hubcentric spacers 4X100MM | 7MM thick | 54.1MM center bore
I don't care what people say, my biggest concern with spacers is alignment, not how "cool" they look. The literature I am reading seems to suggest that a narrower wheel path is preferred in 4WD driving, because of Ackermann and what not.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Oct 30, 2014 15:32:44 GMT -5
will those sizes with the spacers in the rear clear when the suspension is at full compression and full droop? mine didnt clear under compression but did clear when just sitting there.
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Post by Vågen on Oct 30, 2014 22:39:52 GMT -5
Good question! that's a test I failed to proctor. I guess we'll find out the old caveman way by repeatedly hitting the road with my wheel.
Do you have any more specific information on where it contacted? Your setup is .74" taller than mine, but my setup is obviously 20mm wider...
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Post by sp0ngebob on Oct 31, 2014 11:25:39 GMT -5
wheel offset is going to play an issue here more than overall width. and yours is 20mm wider nominally. the same nominal sized tires can be wildly different in real life.
so if i wind up having a tire off the car i can take a picture but heres what i can do in words
standing on the drivers side of the car, inline with the rear tire as if you were removing the tire, at the 9-oclock position the tire was rubbing on the inside. it was touching the chassis under compression. the giveaway was the nice "shiny" spot where the rubberized coating had been worn away and a little odd noise i was getting mid corner.
initially i thought i needed to roll the fenders but there were no rub marks that i could tell. when i took off the tire to roll em, i found the rub mark. one problem with this. the chassis right there is insanely stiff, as it should be. i was only able to "hammer" it back maybe 2mm with a 5lb sledge and a shitload of anger. a simple 5mm spacer in the rear would have solved the inner rubbing issue and i also think that rolling the fenders was useless for me in the end.
however, with 30mm wider than stock tires you might have to roll the fenders. tires will likely touch and theres LOTS of sharp edges in there that can lance a tire.
ill say this, the car is quite a bit more fun to drive with more grip but you will experience LOTS more body roll because of that grip. thats why clearance at compression is so crucial.
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Post by Vågen on Oct 31, 2014 12:54:25 GMT -5
Lots of good wisdom. You have me quite worried, though! If I am getting your word picture right, at the 9 o'clock is where I was rubbing with the car jacked (absolute opposite of compressed), on the suspension arm. I stuck an approximately 2mm washer on each of the lugs- rubber rubbed. Added another, rubbed again. Added a third- here we are definitely +6<9mm offset spacer and I cleared by maybe 2-3mm. I took the car off the jack at this point and very gently and lovingly rolled the car forward and backwards about 2 feet (I was scared of dropping the car the entire time!) I measured and have significantly more clearance, >5mm, I would say, easily. If I compressed more, I would think that I would clear even more? Honestly I was scared to attempt it with what little thread I was working with Perhaps I'd be rubbing on the outside (ouch!) I imagine I have the capability to roll the fenders with my limited toolbox. I have come pretty far on all the math of everything, and that's why the real world "feeling" scares the crap out of me... my numbers are "by the book" and not real world. the oem wheels are 45mm offset, these Konig Heliums are 40mm, when I add the spacer that's 33mm. Willtheyfit.com then says: the wheel will be 7.1mm closer to the strut and 31.1 further out. Again, I get the "nominal" size warning... though I should add that this is a street/commuter car, so I highly doubt I will be cornering it to the limits that an auto-crosser would. 31.1mm (1.25 inches) is significant, I know. Maybe this will play into the other "like to do" project and that is increase the ground clearance by 1" for winter driving. I'm a lot more hesitant to change this, since wheels is a measurement question, suspension multiplies that into a geometry and angles game... which I am scared to do. So now I am on a different topic, but anyone have experience with raising the car about 1", and how did you do it?
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Post by madmatt on Oct 31, 2014 23:48:51 GMT -5
If you are rubbing on that 9 oclock position on the body, you won't be able to move it... it is heavy plate behind the pop can gauge sheet metal. That is the pick up for the trailing arm, and the only thing left for me to weld to after my off. It won't move without a grinder and then you will be cutting into structure. You will most certainly rub at full droop on the trailing arm. The geometry pretty much dictates it on a wider tire. Mine rubbed on 175 gravel tires (at full droop, not static). A good whack solved it and gave just a tad more toe in I raise and lower the car all the time, mostly running 1" or more above stock height. I have adjustable perches. There is no built in camber adjustment. Live with it
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Post by Vågen on Nov 1, 2014 9:23:13 GMT -5
Matt, I'd love to talk more about the perches of yours, but perhaps that means a new thread?
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Post by madmatt on Nov 2, 2014 0:35:27 GMT -5
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Post by Vågen on Nov 4, 2014 13:00:27 GMT -5
If you are rubbing on that 9 oclock position on the body, you won't be able to move it... it is heavy plate behind the pop can gauge sheet metal. That is the pick up for the trailing arm, and the only thing left for me to weld to after my off. It won't move without a grinder and then you will be cutting into structure. You will most certainly rub at full droop on the trailing arm. The geometry pretty much dictates it on a wider tire. Mine rubbed on 175 gravel tires (at full droop, not static). A good whack solved it and gave just a tad more toe in I raise and lower the car all the time, mostly running 1" or more above stock height. I have adjustable perches. There is no built in camber adjustment. Live with it Matt, How often are you hitting full droop on asphalt?
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Post by madmatt on Nov 4, 2014 15:04:14 GMT -5
i don't drive on that stuff... to mundane. honestly I rarely drive the car on pavement, and when i do it's on transits, where we all drive like grandpa without his glasses. we go to full droop all the time on stage... i think you woild have to be driving a bit insanely on pavement to go to full droop. probably license revoking type driving.
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Post by Vågen on Nov 4, 2014 16:36:11 GMT -5
i don't drive on that stuff... to mundane. honestly I rarely drive the car on pavement, and when i do it's on transits, where we all drive like grandpa without his glasses. we go to full droop all the time on stage... i think you woild have to be driving a bit insanely on pavement to go to full droop. probably license revoking type driving. "Listen up y'all it's SABOTAGE!" I do all my offroading in my non-existent BRAT.
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Post by Vågen on Nov 6, 2014 12:19:08 GMT -5
Case closed... I put up pictures in the other post. Still in the break-in period until the end of next week... will post updates on feel.
They look fantastic with the painted drums, IMHO
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