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Post by 88gl on Feb 8, 2013 22:33:48 GMT -5
So, I have been toying with worst case scenarios for my '88. If my engine needs to be rebuilt I need to make a decision. I have 3 choices. 1, I spend however much to have my engine rebuilt (1k?) and be happy stock. 2, I go big and do a engine swap (Honda vtec... $3-$4k?). Or 3, I have my existing engine bored, decked, blueprinted, custom intake with 3 single barrel carbs, shooting for 100-130 hp ($2500?)
I have no real idea of costs, but these are educated guesses. My preferece would be to have my stock motor built up. I'll need to find an ambitious shop to help fab and source the parts.
I have 3 other cars (including a Lotus Elise), but the Justy is my daily beater. I love the stupid car and enjoy commuting in it, so I think it deserves something special. Thoughts?
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 1:02:24 GMT -5
New option. Option #4, swap in Swift g13b dohc engine. I think this is best option because it may bolt to Justy transmission with an adaptor. Size looks compatible. Later Justys used this engine so it may be easier for CA smog as well.I need to source a complete engine, ecu and all smog parts.
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 9, 2013 1:08:29 GMT -5
I am far from a purist, but my advice is to leave it stock. The Justy does not aspire for great performance. Think about all of it's old-ass bushings, brakes, body etc. Not to mention you can throw all the HP's you want at that transmission but you still only go 100km/h (60mph) in 5'th gear at 4000+RPM.
So I guess if you are really power hungry and want that thing to boil it's tires off, chew up Porsche's and feel like a fighter jet, you should look more in to changing it's drive train than upgrading the stock stuff, tho I'm not sure where you would go about finding something with a 4wd setup and the same final drive.
Terry
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Post by blacklight on Feb 9, 2013 4:41:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I fully agree with Terry. Also, dustysjustys says the transmission is gonna shoot after a while if beating at about 130 hp +, I think.
//Magnus.
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Post by gearheadeh on Feb 9, 2013 10:33:40 GMT -5
So, I have been toying with worst case scenarios for my '88. If my engine needs to be rebuilt I need to make a decision. I have 3 choices. 1, I spend however much to have my engine rebuilt (1k?) and be happy stock. 2, I go big and do a engine swap (Honda vtec... $3-$4k?). Or 3, I have my existing engine bored, decked, blueprinted, custom intake with 3 single barrel carbs, shooting for 100-130 hp ($2500?) I have no real idea of costs, but these are educated guesses. My preference would be to have my stock motor built up. I'll need to find an ambitious shop to help fab and source the parts. I have 3 other cars (including a Lotus Elise), but the Justy is my daily beater. I love the stupid car and enjoy commuting in it, so I think it deserves something special. Thoughts? Wow a Lotus Elise, could ya post up some pics and driving impressions in the "Members other rides section" Please ! ! Obviously you like driving small Light cars, Which of course the Justy is, However due to a few limiting things : Size of Wheel wells, and marginal transmission , especially the syncros. It requires a little more work and expense to get any more power to be functional and usefull. Skipping ahead and assume you have over 100 HP you will find the front suspension and the small wheel wells limit your ability to have traction for all of the power. It would require replacing rubber bushings and making up a front traction bar. They look like a fr. sway bar but work to stop torque steer and keep the wheel hop down to a minimum. Then try and find a performance (STICKY) tire that is less than 23 inch tall and not wider than a 185. Next you will need a performance clutch, that will cost around $600. Then you will have to be carefull in how you use that clutch, nice and gentle starts, No revving it up to 6000 rpm and dropping the clutch! Getting over 100 HP out of the Justy EFI 1200 is an attainable goal in my mind. Get a reground camshaft, be nice to figure out a source for some higher rated valve springs and maybe some super light valve spring retainers too! You don't need to lose the EFI in favor of 3 motorcycles carbs, EFI is much more civilized to drive on the street! The EFI intake is a nice piece that just needs a few tweeks: Larger throttle body, shorter runners, slightly bigger plenum. I think that reworking it to do those changes is possible with some welding. Then if you could use your own engine management for the EFI and the ignition , We are talking Haltech or Megasquirt here, the fuel economy and power would be better. The stock fuel management is conservatively rich from the factory to be safe. If you look around this forum you will see several different examples of exhaust tube headers that can be made. There is also H.P. to be saved in managing the engine oil lubrication system, (windage tray for the oil pan!) Hope you are thinking that these things are all things you can do yourself, cause if you think you can go to a shop and ask them to do these things .. .. .. well just be prepared to leave to the sounds of laughter, trust me I have heard it. It is almost impossible to even find a shop that will want to even bother to re-bore your tiny little 3 cylinder block so that you can fit those custom oversize pistons you had made up! As far as swapping in any 4 cylinder engine, well it is 4 cylinders and that means it is that much longer, which means that the transmission has to be that much shorter to make up for that extra length. Making up an adapter plate to mount any other engine to the Justy trans is a lot of precise work and thus expense as well so.. .. ..
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 10:52:26 GMT -5
All good points. I have 13" mini-light wheels that will be going on the Justy. Unfortunately I have to stretch the tires a bit to clear my fenders so I'll have the "hellaflush" look. I think it should look good on the Justy however. The Swift Gti motor is 100 hp...more than enough for me. Like I mentioned I have an Elise so I don't need a Porsche beater...just want a fun daily. The rest of the car will evolve over time. For now I just need to get my hands on a g13b to measure it's length. If I need to trim my inside wheels well a bit that's OK.
The other reason for this is to ditch the leaky, finicky Justy powerplant in favor for a tried and trued reliable dohc motor.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 11:00:03 GMT -5
Here's my Justy next to my '61 Lincoln. Attachments:
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 11:01:35 GMT -5
And here is my Lotus next to the Lincoln. The Justy got kicked to the RV parking, but he's under a nice canopy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 15:15:52 GMT -5
I am far from a purist, but my advice is to leave it stock. The Justy does not aspire for great performance. Think about all of it's old-ass bushings, brakes, body etc. Not to mention you can throw all the HP's you want at that transmission but you still only go 100km/h (60mph) in 5'th gear at 4000+RPM. Zactly, this is what I have been saying for years when people want to pump up the power on these toy cars without making upgrades to the control systems that are consistent with the power upgrade they are suggesting. Not to mention the fact that it probably only takes a stiff wind to get the tin-capsule of a uni-body to flex. Justys with upgraded power are cool, but the best and easiest way to do it right, in my opinion, is to build a custom sub-frame rolling-chassis complete with upgraded running gear, brakes, power and drive trains and then bolt the Justy body on to it. If you did it right with quick disconnects and such, and made it so it's not too difficult to remove the body from the frame, then it could be pretty cool being able to pull the body off the chassis to do maintenance or upgrades. It would just be awesome to be able to walk all the way around the engine and trans. with access from above...being able to sit on the sub-frame and work on stuff.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 16:29:27 GMT -5
My 1961 Lincoln is a uni-body. 5500 lbs and it's far from fragile.
I just don't know if its going to be any easier to rebuild the ef12 vs finding a more common engine...I just want the damn thing backon the road.
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Post by madmatt on Feb 9, 2013 18:29:15 GMT -5
I'll yap...
FWIW, when I first built the rally justy, we ran production, so there was not a lot we could "legally" do...
We did: deck the head, nice valve job, port match the intake, upsize the exhaust from the cat back (by welding in 2 inch right from the bottom of the cat body, not the stock flange), kept the lifter clearance close, and ran a bit more advance on 94 octane. That's with the old carby head, and a KN being fed cool air from the wheel well. It worked great! By no way was it a tire burner, but just having everything in spec up top, it made great power. (let's not talk about oiling...)
Later the flywheel got lightened, a fair bit. No more power, but seemed a bit more responsive. Centerforce clutch with an uprated friction material was a nice pick-up feel. I think it's still available, I'd have to dig for a part number.
If I was going to drive a Justy on the street, I'd do the above, plus a header. That would make 80 odd hp, and you'd burn the tires going into 2nd if you wanted...
Now it's the MonsterJusty, and I'm doing a full bottom end, balanced rods, windage tray, there's no more valve to piston clearance left with the cam and the head decking... the triple carbs. Tuned intake runners planned... should be good for 100-110 hp and torque coming on well in the 3000 range. Would probably make a great street car... I'll tell you in the spring!
Matt
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 19:34:45 GMT -5
Nice Matt. If you weren't so darn far from me I would hire you to build my motor as well.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 9, 2013 19:37:37 GMT -5
By the way guys I just picked up some freaking sweet Panasport 13" "mini light" wheels for my car. The 175/50/r13 tires rub just a hair. Going to throw some 165/55/r13 on and post some pics. My Justy is dropped and just the test fit got my heart pumping...looks sweet!
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Post by madmatt on Feb 9, 2013 21:09:30 GMT -5
Nice Matt. If you weren't so darn far from me I would hire you to build my motor as well. No you wouldn't...I'm an amateur, I'd forget something, it'd blow all the h#ll and we'd both cry. But really, a well tuned, in spec motor makes pretty good power. A bit of time with a die ginder on the intakes to match, deck the head a touch, exhaust, and it's nice motor. FI is that much better too... If you have an 88 consider the FI swap.
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Post by madmatt on Feb 9, 2013 21:11:12 GMT -5
Oh and serious drool on the Lotus...
I had an MR2 turbo, and have dreamed of the lotus since it hit the market.
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Post by redfathom on Feb 9, 2013 23:37:55 GMT -5
with that budget, wounder if a vr5 or 6 will fit.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 10, 2013 19:38:40 GMT -5
Posting an update in troubleshooting.
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Post by bredmirror on Jan 31, 2018 6:33:22 GMT -5
New option. Option #4, swap in Swift g13b dohc engine. I think this is best option because it may bolt to Justy transmission with an adaptor. Size looks compatible. Later Justys used this engine so it may be easier for CA smog as well.I need to source a complete engine, ecu and all smog parts. Im planning to do that, how difficult to adapt the engine? (I would swap the transmission too)
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Post by jasin on Feb 1, 2018 1:41:07 GMT -5
it as totally different drivetrain, so it will be same difficult than almost any other engine
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Post by bredmirror on Feb 2, 2018 11:33:46 GMT -5
Then the question is will a 2nd gen justy's drivetrain fit without cutting too much
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