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Post by noaz on Dec 4, 2012 15:39:38 GMT -5
Thought I would post some results_ I replaced the rear dampers with those from a VW golf (slight modification on the shock holes). I added a 1" spacer under the rear springs. For the front dampers I used VW golf inserts made by KYB, added a copper shim so that they fit tight in the spindle housing clamp. Built another clamp that holds the coilover threaded sleeve (from summit). I eventually replaced the stock springs with 170lb per inch rate springs. I cut the upper mount and added camber plates_ also had to machine the dis-joints (hardware for damper piston in uniball mount). I found that adjusting the spring preload to a minimum allowed for stock ride height_ minimal heat in cv joints_ and best handling. Overall result_ super fun on moderate dirt roads. Big hits that bottom out the damper will push the damper through the clamps into the CV boot below. My suggestion would be to find an insert with a minimal length to allow for more room in this dimension. The ones I used are 12"_ I think I saw some 10" ones out there. This would be better. This is how the ride height looks_ I also cut the front fenders and trimmed the rear fender wells.
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Post by madmatt on Dec 4, 2012 21:22:54 GMT -5
First off, nice car! What wheels are those?
I like the pinch clamp, I''d be a bit worried about it moving over time, but it works.
I would though caution you on the upper mount set up. It appears you are hanging the entire car on two bolts!
That camber plate top is intended to go under the strut tower. In your set up all the weight of the car is riding tiny area the washers are distributing to the sheet metal of the tower. In the stock config, the upper strut mount rides below, distributing the weight over the nearly entire area of the upper tower. You have removed the stiffing rib (that pressed rib around the stock hole), further weakening the structure...
I fully expect that in short order you will have your strut tops making holes in your hood.
It looks like you probably don't baby the car over bumps. From a guy who doesn't either, I would suggest fabbing up a large thick (ie 1/4") plate that fits tight around the perimeter up in there, with a center hole only large enough for the top of the strut mount to fit through. Oblong it so you can still use the camber plates... and weld that sucker in well.
The pillow ball is only going to make this worse, as don't have anything to dampen the highspeed vibrations that will fatigue the metal.
Alternatively if the large plate of the camber plate is steel and not aluminum (can't tell from the pic) you could weld it to the strut tower. Might be easier. If it's aluminum, or even not... have it copied at a machine shop and then weld the copy in.
Seriously... do it or you'll likely be looking for a new hood.
Otherwise, nice set up...
Matt
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Post by Armageddous on Dec 4, 2012 22:11:11 GMT -5
I second that notion, unless there is already some kind of reinforcement plate underneath that we can't see.
Terry
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Post by Cañon Carver on Dec 5, 2012 2:30:09 GMT -5
Hooray!! Someone with enough balls to try something out of the box I am on my way to having something along the same lines of a coil setup, just missing a few odds and ends, lol. I love the look of your Justy, perfect height. Could we get some more pics later of the side and such, maybe underneath? -Jamie
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Post by noaz on Dec 5, 2012 15:13:06 GMT -5
Hey_ Keen eyes for the weak spot I had to cut the upper mount to accomidate the pillow ball mount that sits in the aluminum camber plate. It is large and slides in the plate for camber adjustment. You are right about hanging on thin metal_ it has already deformed around the bolt holes. I intend on welding some thick plate in and buttressing the area next time I pull the motor. Hopefully it lasts for a few months. I posted more pics in the rally section under rally"ish" and responded to the wheel question there.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 11:22:32 GMT -5
Awesome - this is fantastic even just because it's something! I have had a complete suspension sitting at 3 different shops over the years with the intent for them to at least find an insert that works in the front and a replacement shock for the rear since the collar could easily be replicated or made to be servicable. I do not have the time myself, nor do I have a place to do the work. If I did, I probably would have piles of cut up shocks/struts by now.
Ground Control makes a spring perch that could work in the rear, so the front was the only part that really was needing some work. Also, would be nice to put a proper rear sway on, and re-build the front swaybar mounts where they attach to the links.
BTW - what year Golf are the inserts for if you don't mind?
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Post by noaz on Dec 10, 2012 19:34:58 GMT -5
Here are some specs_ The VW Golf weighs about 2,500lbs_ approx. 25% more than the Justy. They seem to give plenty adequate dampening with stiffer springs (170 lb per inch) front_ rear springs on mine are stock with a 1" spacer, not sure about rate for rear. It seems to work O.K._ the car does not over/under steer with the mods. I bought the rear coilover dampers from Napa, they looked like this_ not sure on the range of years for stock applications, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out if you just go to Napa and have them pull a few. To get them to work I very delicately cut off the spring perch, had to enlarge one set of the damper holes (the distance from hole to hole on the Justy mount is slightly larger_ maybe 1/8") and had to drill out the upper mount to accomidate slightly larger piston mount_ the threaded bit. The front inserts are also for a VW Golf, KYB off of EBAY 50$. Part number and specs from KYB customer support below. The dimensions for part number 364014 are: Extended Length is 21.14” Compressed Length is: 14.41” Body length is: 12.95” Body Diameter is: 42.7mm Piston rod Diameter is: 20 mm The Justy spindle housing clamp that holds the stock strut is about 1 3/4" diameter. I split a piece of copper pipe as a shim to make up the difference between the damper diameter and spindle clamp. It is a very snug fit_ had to put a piece of pipe on the top of the damper body and "persuade" it into with a hammer to get it into the spindle clamp. I also drilled out the threads on the clamp and put a through nut and bolt on it. The first time I tested the setup I did not have the shim in place, nor did I have the fabbed clamp on it. I also had the rubber bumper that slides over the piston to keep it from bottoming too long. The result was that I bottomed out the damper and pushed it through the lower clamp nearly into the CV joint. I added the shim and upper clamp (turqoise in pics) and cut the bumper to a minimum (for trimmed fenders). I haven't bottomed it out again, but if I jumped the car it might. The nut on the KYB piston rod is 14mm_ Machining the offsets to fit the uniball in the camber plate was an unexpected pain. In the end, I found stock ride height to provide the best handling and any (small) added height seemed to increase CV joint heat alot. In otherwords_ increase friction and decrease longevity. It didn't take much height before they were poping and binding. It looks like the camber plates may not be necessary if you go with a stock height by adjusting the preload accordingly. However, the damper piston is larger than stock and the Justy upper rubber mount didn't look like it could be enlarged_ safely. The car is realy fun to drive with stiffer suspension. My recomendation to others would be that a custom setup is alot of work but possible. Furthermore, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. In other words assess and recognize the potential of the Justy as well as its limitations. It is a small 4wd car_ not a long travel, high clearance truck. Hope this helps_
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Post by madmatt on Dec 10, 2012 23:56:30 GMT -5
hmmm,
That's odd that you had the issue with pushing the strut through the spindle. Are you sure you were in fact bottoming the damper?
My rough measurements for the stock Justy fronts are
Front tube 13.5" Front total extended 23" ish Front compressed 17" ish
That's longer, with nearly the same travel or slightly less... You should certainly not be more prone to bottoming the damper with a stiffer spring and a stiffer damper. I suspect the issue was the clamping force prior to the shim you made was not adequate to hold the damper in place.
Anyway, good work in the end.
Oh edit... I'm interested in your skid plate! Can you post some pics of the rear mounts? Mine is, well, not very good... I gave up nearly 1.5 inches of ground clearance fabbing the rear mount, and that's a lot when you run in the ruts at the back of the pack!
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