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Post by imaginarius on Nov 27, 2009 16:37:27 GMT -5
I have already replaced the hub(136 dollars) because the first time this happened, was actually the first trip to Seattle 2 months ago. We(my BIL) took it apart and tightened the assembly after I got back, and it was good for two days, then it just lost all engagement. That's when we saw the hub was toast. Got the new one on, and so far so good, until this next trip up. Before I left Poulsbo my brother noticed a slight decompression shudder...what's the word...you remember when you were kids(or have kids now, or whatever) and you would have a toy car of some sort, and you would grab a wheel and with just your thumb and forefinger, you would simply flick that wheel and send it spinning. Ok, sometimes instead of a nice smooth roll, it would shudder like it was freaking out and the whole wheel would shake and very quickly stop spinning. Well, I realize that was a ridiculous and long explanation, but that's what it seemed like in decompression. Then it was fine all the way to the 205, where the (1A. Rain-ruts in the road would catch my tires and the car would go sharply(and extremely dangerously) to the left or to the right; (1B. The sheer wind power in itself would...well, you get THAT point(Tacoma Narrows in THIS weather, in THAT car??) (2A. Drivers would very slowly pass me, which seemed to make the car veer slowly(but still dangerously) into that vehicles' direction, then basically blinding me with whatever it was spitting out for a while... Now whatever was happening before I hit the 205, whatever, but I think this is what really killed it...(2B. Drivers would flippin' fly by my car, sending any amounts of water directly at the wheel, which then would make the car...veer uncontrollably...into that direction...there would be no grip, I just went. Sheer violence. It was almost worse then hydroplaning. But see that would also lead to (3. Giant puddles in the road would do this too. And it was always seem to be the left wheel that would take it all(because that is where it seemed the rain-ruts would be.) So I pulled off in some town and tried to find the nearest auto-parts store, hoping SOME kind of pin that could work, stopping every other lot or so to get out, grab the top of the tire and shake it as hard as can so the tire would lift up enough so I can re-screw the nuts back on. Of course, 1130pm and the Napa is closed so I finally stopped and took off one of my heavy duty key-rings, did some bendery-fashioning, and slapped her on. Very scary at first, testing it out for the rest of the 205, stopping every 5 miles or so to get out and check it. Good!! Hit the 5 and stayed at 55-60 the whole way; and it helped the rain died down. I am just glad my son and I are ok. (On a shit-but-true note, I was trying to find a payphone/police officer so I could find the nearest APC; could not find a cop ANYwhere, so after I put the *new pin on, I mildly donutted(?) in the Napa lot to stress test it. Oh sure, NOW there is a cop, watching my every move. I stop mid-nut(??) and look at him; I was not sure if he saw ME or not, but he accelerated onto his duties. So he knew some punk in a hatchback was doing donuts a a parking lot! haha 5 minutes later that same cop pulled over some old lady and was handing her out a ticket. ) So any thoughts on this very obviously-you-don't-need-to-say-anything-about-how-long-this-was...long thing? I think I understand why it failed in the first place(shitty pin, loosening nuts enough to shred the hub) but this time, the pin just blew right off on the freeway, AFTER I totally checked and double-checked the pin, nuts, even lug nuts. WEIRD!! And the keyring...while I thought it would not actually be 100 percent.. it is amazing. Way thicker then a cotter pin would ever be, and it really only took a few small taps of a hammer to get the second thing in, because I basically pulled the ring out making it more like a spring, then bent about 2 1/2 inches of one open side, popped it in, hammered the rest back up a lil bit, and then bent the other side of the ring to pop it in and double it up. Very strong. Goofy, scary looking, but strong. Ok I am done.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 13:08:55 GMT -5
I am just glad my son and I are ok. I have said this before in threads on this topic of which you participated, but I will say it again since you clearly haven't understood. The cotter pin does not hold the castle nut onto your spindle...torque does. You need to, torque your nuts, to 130 ft/lbs or more. If they don't stay torqued then you need to replace the taper lock washer and spring washer. After decrying spending $136 dollars on a new hub, spend $10 more and replace the parts that are the real problem. If your wheel can be shaken loose by hand, even just a little, then you need to park it until you fix it. Until you learn to properly attach the wheels to your car, please do not drive it, you could easily kill someone.
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Post by jintei on Nov 28, 2009 13:35:41 GMT -5
slight play on the hub= countdown to extintion, please hear ferox before you end up like me torque that nut like if it was a v8 harmonic damper pulley
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Post by imaginarius on Nov 28, 2009 19:59:49 GMT -5
I fully f-ing understand the cotter pin does not hold it on, and NO, one normally CANNOT shake my f-ing wheel off by hand. Let me break it down real simple-like. This problem only occurs on a high mile, high speed trip, and I have been on two lately, and both times(no other time) this happens. We torque the nuts to the proper specs, and everything has been just fine, until the trips. While I do appreciate the advice on the washer/spring, I currently do NOT have the proper equipment to tighten down the nut, and Jesse(who does have it is still in Sacramento, so NO, I am NOT driving the car. And where the hell did I write in there, or in the past, that I thought the cotter pin normally holds the wheel on? I understand that completely, but in THIS case, my keyring HAD to sort of hold the wheel on. Got it? I made it home SAFE, it is parked until the 5th, so please do not assume I am a farcleing retard, ok? Jintei, nice to see you.
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Post by jintei on Nov 28, 2009 20:36:29 GMT -5
easy man, people also treated me like i was driving a terrorist car filled with TNT when my castle nut started loosening by itself, how are the threads on the nut and on the hub? after some incidents like those mine where ruined, also if they have a slight hit between the threaded part the nut, the deformity wouldnt let the piece screw properly. also the spring washer suffers a lot of erosion when this happens and its reduced size will cause damn trouble and make torque readings lie. also the joint threads that mate the brake disc in my case had erased almost completley, only a small portion remained and could only hold the wheel for some kilometers.. luck man!
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 28, 2009 23:01:00 GMT -5
I fully f-ing understand the cotter pin does not hold it on, and NO, one normally CANNOT shake my f-ing wheel off by hand. Let me break it down real simple-like. This problem only occurs on a high mile, high speed trip, and I have been on two lately, and both times(no other time) this happens. We torque the nuts to the proper specs, and everything has been just fine, until the trips. While I do appreciate the advice on the washer/spring, I currently do NOT have the proper equipment to tighten down the nut, and Jesse(who does have it is still in Sacramento, so NO, I am NOT driving the car. And where the hell did I write in there, or in the past, that I thought the cotter pin normally holds the wheel on? I understand that completely, but in THIS case, my keyring HAD to sort of hold the wheel on. Got it? I made it home SAFE, it is parked until the 5th, so please do not assume I am a farcleing retard, ok? Jintei, nice to see you. Imag, you need to settle down, boy.
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Post by imaginarius on Nov 28, 2009 23:18:15 GMT -5
Sj, what I do NOT understand is why you have to quote every damn thing that is said, only to say something small. This is a specific post with specific things said, I don't think you need to go through the hassle of making everything I say repeat itself only to respond with a dinky one-liner. And I don't appreciate you calling me a boy, I try not to call people names(my apologies if I have), so please set an example mr. Administrator, and do the same. Thanks!!
Jintei, I will most definitely check those threads. I suppose when you get wrapped up in one issue, you tend to overlook some others. Where have you been anyways?
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Post by jintei on Nov 29, 2009 0:13:22 GMT -5
well, first i couldn't friggin log in! i don't know if this happens frequently but the forum seems to hate some computers and wont let you log no matter how much you try , happened with both computers, one at an office and the one at home, both macs. meanwhile i sold the justy to a neighbour that now has 4 ( i suspect its danimal with a fake moustache....) so i just gave up. new computer now, seems this one is approved by the forum glitch... And i came back cuz i wanna beat you reaching the fourth star!!!! ;D P.D: also check the brake pads, if they got deformed every time you brake they'll force the disc out too
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
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Post by Danimal on Nov 29, 2009 0:42:04 GMT -5
( i suspect its danimal with a fake moustache....) That's too funny, I recently grew a moustache whilst off work for three weeks following the birth of my third child. Car park attendants cannot be scruffy. It takes a few days off to grow through 'scruffy'. -Danimal
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 29, 2009 5:07:46 GMT -5
Sj, what I do NOT understand is why you have to quote every damn thing that is said, only to say something small. . . I don't think you need to go through the hassle . . . only to respond with a dinky one-liner. I've been working on my brevity. Perhaps you preferred the more verbose SJ. Also, I served as Administrator only briefly. I have not been an admin for a long time. Also, the boy was colloquial, but I guess you never lived in the Midwest or the South. I might recommend it for you. T'would chill you out to have some sweet tea.
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Post by imaginarius on Nov 29, 2009 17:45:51 GMT -5
Sj.......I sigh with a smile.
Jintei! I shall slay you!
Stacks, I will check that(as well as maynards) advice tomorrow morning, when I will try and set things straight(pun intended) with this. And maynard, been a while for you too huh?
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 29, 2009 18:01:54 GMT -5
I do NOT understand is why you have to quote every damn thing that is said, only to say something small. From wiki: The novel(Animal Farm) . . . blah blah blah. . . wickedness,. . . blah blah. . . ignorance, . . . blah blah jealousy. . . destroy any possibility of a Utopia.stacks Maybe Imag is to Stacks as Stacks is to George Orwell.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 29, 2009 23:05:23 GMT -5
Err, Not only are you mis-quoting me but you're now mis-quoting the source, Wikipedia, No surprise, what's to be expected from a parasite. stacks . . . Three, two, one, and there's the name calling. Predictable and no sense of humor.
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Post by spiked3cylinder on Nov 30, 2009 12:41:18 GMT -5
Hey guys (and gals)!
I have had this very trouble with my previous 88' DL - had to replace the hub, castle nut, and wheel bearings...
Question...my new 91' 4wd has a different hub nut, other than what I've seen previously seen on my other Justy - as well as different from the rest of the normal castle nuts. This is NOT a castle nut, rather it appears to be a regular hub nut, that has those wimpy crimps to prevent loosening.
Is this ok? I'm ordering a real one - I should have it Thursday. The mechanics that replaced my clutch ended up giving me a new axle when they couldn't get the previous one in. This is the axle that has the different hub nut on.
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Post by imaginarius on Dec 5, 2009 14:57:30 GMT -5
Ok, so I took it out up to JC to the shop where my father in law works, one of his buddies said(he called some random Justy owner, don't know who he is) it needs to be tightened to 100(not sure why I doubt that, I thought I heard here at least 130). Plus, the guy I sold that other Justy to also happens to work next to Pop, and HE said to check the shit every 500 miles. Any thoughts? By the way, even though the wheel was fairly loose, there seemed to be no damage to anything, not even the hub, soooo maybe I got lucky. Maybe.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Dec 5, 2009 15:47:47 GMT -5
Every reference I find requests a great deal of torque: The front castle nut torque is 145ft-lbs (296N*m). The Rear 4WD castle nut is 108ft-lbs (147N*m) I am going to be bold here: the condition of the "spindle kit" parts are the variable you are chasing. In a budget pinch I thought that I could get by with re-using my washer + center spacer. I was then having the castle nut seemingly "un-torquing" itself every week. What was it? It was a worn center spacer allowing the hub to move (rapidly degrading what was left of the center spacer). When I measured the old center spacer to the new part, they had the same outer diameter, yet differed by 0.42mm in height. Meaning the less than half a millimeter let the castle nut turn in about four more rotations to find torque (and the cotter pin was useless at this point, as the nut was tightened past the key-way). If you are using a new "spindle kit" and still have worry, then torque the hub castle nut, leave the cotter pin out, take it for a short drive around the block, check torque again, then put the cotter pin in. -hope this helps -RRJ (updated to edit an error)
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Post by imaginarius on Dec 5, 2009 17:58:45 GMT -5
That was a pretty awesome and useful post, but I don't have a new "spindle kit"; and it seems that I need one, eh? Now the weird thing is is that the guy(the random who had a Justy) said if you tightened it anymore then 100, you will just over tighten and ruin the shit. I am going to take a wild guess and say that he is NOT using a new spindle kit, either...
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Post by madmatt on Dec 5, 2009 18:32:33 GMT -5
Hey,
I'm unsure as to what the orginal problem was.
"I have already replaced the hub(136 dollars) because the first time this happened, was actually the first trip to Seattle 2 months ago. We(my BIL) took it apart and tightened the assembly after I got back, and it was good for two days, then it just lost all engagement. That's when we saw the hub was toast. Got the new one on, and so far so good, until this next trip up."
What was loosing engagment, the nut, or the hub on the axle splines?
So when you replaced the hub, did you replace the axel as well?
Did you replace the wheel bearings?
Replace the castle nut?
The hub should never fail, I repeat never fail, unless something terrible has gone wrong elsewhere. It just sits there and and takes some load. If that has happened (the hub failed), then bearings, bearing spacer, nut and axle (at least the outboard portion) are junk.
If you did replace the bearings, and did not replace the spacer as RRJ hs just mentioned, then there is the likelyhood you will not be able to ever get enough torque on the the axle nut (compressing the bearings) to hold it together.
These are not taper bearings, and as such do require more torque, I don't think I'd let the gun rattle for hours, but for sure the 150 ft/lbs range.
Other issues might be foreign matter in the housing or the rubber seals getting mashed between the hub and outer bearing, or the CV joint shoulder and the inner bearing. If this happend and you torqued down the nut, installed the pin, it might go slack later.
You do have the right generation hub on there, right, not a Gen2 on a Gen 1 axel? I don't even know if it would engage at all, but the Gen 2 axle is bigger.
That's all I can throw at it for now.
Matt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 20:20:35 GMT -5
I don't have a new "spindle kit"; and it seems that I need one, eh? Yes you need a new spindle kit. The sooner the better because the old taper lock washer can ruin your new hub. Now the weird thing is is that the guy(the random who had a Justy) said if you tightened it anymore then 100, you will just over tighten and ruin the shit. Factory spec is: torque to 130 ft/lbs, then tighten another 30 degrees to line up the cotter pin hole. You will end up somewhere around 145 ft/lb and you will not over tighten. Less then 100 ft/lbs is too loose. The taper lock mechanism is designed to work with relatively high torque. The castle nut, spring washer, taper lock washer, and taper seat in the hub are what holds your hub to the axle. They must all be in good condition and torqued to greater than 130 ft/lbs to work properly. I am not sure I can put it more plainly than that.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Dec 5, 2009 22:53:24 GMT -5
That was a pretty awesome and useful post, but I don't have a new "spindle kit"; and it seems that I need one, eh? Now the weird thing is is that the guy(the random who had a Justy) said if you tightened it anymore then 100, you will just over tighten and ruin the shit. I am going to take a wild guess and say that he is NOT using a new spindle kit, either... Hey, I don't know if you have found the spindle kit yet here are a couple of links that may be handy for them. shop.oreillyauto.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=DOR&MfrPartNumber=05135&PartType=742&PTSet=ADORMAN Part # 05135 $8.59 www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1269200,parttype,1932 DORMAN Part # 05135 $8.28 scratch that link, they say "part unavailable" when I try to order it. edit -- > Napa Auto in Eugene OR. Can order the kit for $10.40 -RRJ
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