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Post by dmnordin on Nov 20, 2009 14:06:46 GMT -5
So, here's what's going on....'92 fuel injected 4WD 2 door Justy w/170K miles that sat for probably 2-4 years.
2 owners ago; overheated, and I'm told warped the head.
Previous owner (guy #2) got the car to fix up & use as a commuter car (the other guy owed him money), Guy #2 said that he had the head rebuilt (I don't know what how thorough of a "rebuild" though), but he didn't remove the oil pan when he replaced the water pump, and the cover the the water pump is in didn't seal, and he ended up w/a big oil leak.
I bought the car for $300 with the lower, front end of engine apart, but still attached to the engine via the dip stick.
I tore into the car enough to get the oil pan off, and replaced the balancer chain, guide, timing belt, oil pump, etc. and got it back together and running; no oil leaks, and running temp stays about 1/4-1/3 up from the bottom on the temp gauge scale.
1st emmisions test; diluted, old fuel & HC's (too much fuel left in the exhaust) too high by 400 (should have been below 200ish, but was 600 ish).
2nd emmisions test - new fuel, rodded out front cat (was 85% plugged), & got compression on #2 from 90 to 110 pounds; #1 compression 125, #3 compression 110 after driving a couple of hundred miles & chemical cleanout of combustion chamber to free up rings. HC's up to 800 - WORSE.
3rd emmisions test; HC's up to 1039! Yikes!
next did compression test , and then compression test with a shot of oil in cylinder. the 2 cylinders with 110 compression went up to 120 compression.
The machine shop guy says that compression is close enough that the rings are probably OK (didn't say they were great). My mechanic buddy that has been doing the emissions testing says to re-do just the head, and it's probably a valve.
Some more info;
the car has uses 3/16" on the dip stick worth of oil in 500 miles of driving in the last week - leaking valve guide contributing to high HC's?
my oil pressure at warmed up idle is 10lb - machine shop guy says it's a little low. - Main bearings worn, causing drop in oil pressure?!?
oil temp around 225 when warmed up.
vacuum around 25 at idle.
Bottom line is I think the engine is just too tired & I need to rebuild the bottom & top ends, but am torn, thinking about just doing the head w/engine left in car.
Please give me feedback.
Thank you,
Doug
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Post by Justy4x4 on Nov 20, 2009 15:21:21 GMT -5
High HC can be caused by a defective O2 sensor. Considering how old these cars are now it's not a bad idea to just go ahead and replace it regardless. Just pick up an NTK or Denso O2 sensor (a universal style is fine) and give it a try.
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Post by dmnordin on Nov 20, 2009 16:45:28 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I forgot that I did replace the O2 sensor with a generic one after the first emissions test, and the stuff I listed that I did for the second test was actually done for the third test.
Thanks for your response,
Doug
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Post by Quidam on Nov 21, 2009 20:52:24 GMT -5
Hi,
Today I pulled a Justy engine apart and the two top rings were free but the oil rings were pretty gunked up. I don't know if penetrating oil sprayed and left to soak would free something like that up or not.
The engine ran and sounded good, good oil pressure too. It had to be using some oil with the oil rings stuck. I didn't drive it for long before I tore it down tho, so I don't know how much oil it was going through. Didn't smoke tho.
Doug
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 13:09:50 GMT -5
I am getting close to rebuild time as well. I noticed some seeping coolant and oil from the respective pump areas. Can anyone comment on the "rebuild in the car" aspect? I believe my bottom end to be in good shape and I have great oil pressure even at hot idle, but would like to have the head refreshed, replace the timing belt, water/oil pumps and head gasket. I will make my final decisions on the extent of the rebuild after the compression test though...
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Post by Quidam on Dec 3, 2009 21:50:12 GMT -5
Hey,
I was just looking at this, factory service manual.
Standard compression pressure is 156 psi.
Variance between cylinders 14 psi or less.
Limit of compression 135 psi
So, what's yours?
Well, I just prefer to pull the motor for work like that. But it's doable in the car.
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Post by Quidam on Dec 3, 2009 22:05:10 GMT -5
next did compression test , and then compression test with a shot of oil in cylinder. the 2 cylinders with 110 compression went up to 120 compression.
The machine shop guy says that compression is close enough that the rings are probably OK
leaking valve guide contributing to high HC's?
If it's guides, you can count on the exhaust going first. I typically replace all exhaust guides.
Rings might be ok, but I'm thinking you have a tired Justy. If you seal the valves up you'll put more pressure on worn rings. I'd like to know what the compression comes up to, if you do just the head.
Doug
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 4, 2009 13:12:45 GMT -5
I'm going ahead with a full rebuild along with a clutch while I have the engine/trans out of the car. I've been waiting on parts, and will be pulling the engine/trans tomorrow. Anyone want to come over & help?? I'm not looking forward to doing it in 20-30 degree weather, and there's a chance of snow for the next 5 days!
Doug
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Post by Quidam on Dec 4, 2009 16:30:59 GMT -5
Come over? I don't even know where you are.
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 4, 2009 17:11:58 GMT -5
It was kind of a joke when I asked if anyone would come over - it seems like most everyone else is very far away from me (I'm in Utah).
Doug
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Post by streetruler on Dec 4, 2009 17:43:59 GMT -5
your rings are not OK. thats really low compression in there i would guess that they are just tired.
get some new slugs, and rings and watch that compression number fly upward. also do a leak down test to really see what the problem is. air out the oil cap is rings. air out the exhaust/throttle body is valves.
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 6, 2009 11:13:19 GMT -5
Yesterday I pulled the engine & trans - wish I didn't have to pull the exhaust, part of the front suspension & half shafts, rear drive line, etc. first - oh well. This morning I'll be taking the engine apart - the head goes to the machine shop in the morning, and I'll be picking up the bottom end rebuild parts from them (pre-ordered everything). The clutch & pilot bearing is worn out - good thing I pre-ordered a clutch! I sure am looking forward to being done with this! Temperatures were in the 20's & 30's yesterday, & I've been working on it for a couple of months already.
Doug
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 7, 2009 22:48:32 GMT -5
I left off the head, block, pistons, & crank at the machine shop this morning. Here's the scoop so far.
The pistons are toast - too worn, & the cylinders are also worn & not round anymore - bad combo. Thanks to this forum, I referred the machine shop to look for safety brand oversized pistons (they weren't having any luck finding any), There was one set of pistons left on Safety's shelves, & they (along with rings) will be here on Wednesday. It will only cost an extra $50 for the rings & pistons after the machine shop returns the normal sized rings they had pre-ordered. The cylinders will be bored oversized.
The crank is worn, so I'm having them look more to find oversized main bearings so they can grind down the main journals (instead of just polishing them) so they will be round & tight = good oil pressure (it was 9psi at idle before the tear down).
They'll be tearing into the head tomorrow.
The TMI gasket set looks good & complete.
I'm actually starting to get excited about this again with the possibility of coming off with a good rebuild. I need to find torque specs for everything before the weekend.
Doug
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Post by apesofdoom on Dec 8, 2009 6:34:27 GMT -5
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 8, 2009 8:59:26 GMT -5
Thanks so much, Apesofdoom! You da' Man!
Doug
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 12:48:39 GMT -5
Seriously! Awesome collection and all photos saved. Actually really excited to tear into mine once I have the chance.
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 9, 2009 19:22:02 GMT -5
I just got back from the machine shop (again).
My block is done, cylinders are bored 20 thousandths over - it's beautiful.
My new, oversized pistons are beautiful.
My head was quite warped, had a little pitting, ring impressions in the aluminum from the head gasket metal rings, and has one small crack. I have an extra head from my '90 CARBURETED donor car, so I can't use that for this fuel injected engine. He said the crack will be fine, and he'll shave the head to take out the warpage, pitting, & ring impressions = higher compression for me! Awesome!
They cleaned up the front engine covers from both engines so we could see which one had the least amount of wear in the oil pump shaft hole.
He had finished grinding the main journals on the crank, and showed me while he was setting up his machine to grind the piston rod journals.
Tomorrow he'll be done with the crank, and the head will be done as well. Friday, the rod bearings will be in, & Saturday = Engine Assemblage!
Doug
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coal
Lets roll. When I get rollin.
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Post by coal on Dec 10, 2009 2:04:38 GMT -5
Watch the timing if they mill too much off.
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Post by dmnordin on Dec 10, 2009 9:08:26 GMT -5
I'm assuming that you mean watch for the timing marks to line up correctly when I do the timing belt?
Doug
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Post by Quidam on Dec 10, 2009 11:29:11 GMT -5
Hey,
He's talking about the engine "pinging" easier.
Doug
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Is your car an ecvt?