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Post by joemiolli on Oct 13, 2009 0:15:28 GMT -5
Hello there, I remember reading somewhere a posting about adding powder to a failed electromagnetic clutch that was slipping, and cant find again, if anybody remembers this posting can you point me in the right direction? thru some research of my own I found out that the iron powder inside the clutch is " Carbonyl "E" Iron CAS # 13463-40-6 and the grade is "8 Microns" supposedly this type "E" powder is not very expensive, I understand that if the clutch fails electrically ( for example shorted or open windings) theres not much to do. but if it is other type of failure maybe theres hope... any info would be greatly appreciated. PS: Has anyboody ever taken one of this clutches apart? The source of my information about carbonyl e iron: museum.nist.gov/panels/clutch/modern.htmJoe. |
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Post by Quidam on Oct 13, 2009 11:05:53 GMT -5
"Nissan Micra/March and Subaru Justy drivers - If your vehicle suffers a failure phone us first for a diagnostic. These vehicles are fitted with an electromagnetic clutch. When investigating such faults many workshops will tell you that the fault lies with the transmission and that cost of getting your vehicle back on the road will be very high. In most cases, however, the problem lies only with the electromagnetic clutch which can be repaired without great cost (almost the same price as a conventional clutch from a manual gearbox)."
A shop in NZ quote.
Doug
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Post by Quidam on Oct 13, 2009 14:51:06 GMT -5
"Hello there, I remember reading somewhere a posting about adding powder to a failed electromagnetic clutch" Snip " I understand that if the clutch fails electrically ( for example shorted or open windings) theres not much to do." Snip Yes, shorted or open...two things to check. I have one that's open, but it isn't shorted. It died in a mail car. I have another that measures 02.3 Ohms on the slip rings. Factory spec. is 2 to 4 Ohm range. Means "the slip rings are functioning properly". Probes between the sliprings and the aluminum fins confirms it isn't shorted. BTW, this clutch came on a JDM carbed Justy. At this point, I don't see why it wouldn't work, tho I haven't tried it yet. "but if it is other type of failure maybe theres hope..." "PS: Has anyboody ever taken one of this clutches apart?" I have taken the 10 phillips screws out and split the case with a fine putty knife. The powder is in this chamber. I vacumed it up on this one as it's the one with the open windings. Factory "fill" with the metal powder is 65g. The source of my information about carbonyl e iron: museum.nist.gov/panels/clutch/modern.htmThanks for the link! Doug |
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Post by Quidam on Oct 13, 2009 15:00:31 GMT -5
Hi,
One more thing. If you have the clutch in front of you..Get a common 9V battery and spin the input of the clutch. Next, touch the battery terminals to the slip rings. You will see some little sparks.
Anyway, you'll engage the clutch and it will lock up.
Doug
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Post by Quidam on Oct 13, 2009 22:38:05 GMT -5
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 15, 2009 12:00:31 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info Doug, I wanted to know where you found out about the amount of powder required to fill the clutch, you said the factory fill is 65 grams, and I know this is important for the performance of the clutch and the proper functioning.
Cordially, Joe.
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Post by Quidam on Oct 15, 2009 15:27:07 GMT -5
Hey Joe,
I got that from my 1990 Factory Service Manual. Section 3, page 43.
"65g (2.29 oz)" Metal powder
YW
Doug
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 17, 2009 0:29:52 GMT -5
Thanks again, I would like to find a factory service manual, for my 92 model.
Joe.
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Post by mnbradbury on Oct 21, 2009 15:53:11 GMT -5
im also having trouble finding a service manual for my 92 ecvt justy 1.0. any ideas folks??
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Post by 406justy on Oct 22, 2009 12:50:56 GMT -5
i've downloaded those factory diagnosis manuals from dusty's. the first one is 26 pages and the second is 34 pages. they do download. there is a guy on ebay selling justy ecvt info in pdf format as well. it is trasmisson repair industry information. a lot of factory subaru info. quite informational. i recommend it if any one has a ecvt.
chris in montana
88 Justy DL
91 Justy 5-door ECVT 4WD
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 19:40:21 GMT -5
I have opened the bad Powder clutch I have , and found very little powder in it, most of it ended up in the bellhousing of the tranny mixed with the leak from the rear oil seal of the engine, also seems that the bearing that supports the coil is worn and it rubs a little bit against the case, the windings are Okay, also, what prevents this powder from coming out? is there a seal somewhere? couldn't find any seals unless the seal desintegrated, I have read about a felt seal to stop the powder from coming out in some powder clutches for non automotive applications, I have researched this powder with the New Zealand shop that repairs this kind of transmissions and the answered that the powder is available for $ 175 NZD roughly $ 125 CAD , plus shipping and handling, now I need to find a procedure to fill the clutch with powder without spilling it, anybody out there with a factory manual can come up with a procedure? I found online a Catalog that listed a Magnetic powder clutch refill sachet, and a part number, but Subaru does not recognize it. any more Information on this subject would be appreciated as a new clutch is around $ 700 USD.
Thanks for your help.
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 19:54:33 GMT -5
This are some pictures of the failed clutch, this clutch was slipping and grabbing, shuddering. seems that the only failure was the loss or deterioration of the Iron powder ( Carbonyl "E" iron ) . In the pictures you can see where the powder came out from, and you can compare it to a good used clutch that is dry. Attachments:
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 20:02:18 GMT -5
and this is a Picture of the other Powder clutch and tranny that I am gonna be using in my project as it came out of a good running car that was too rusty to put on the road, notice the opening for the Hydraulic pump shaft, appears to be clean with no residue of powder coming out as in the other picture I posted, Because this clutches are so expensive, I am trying to save the one that failed, they are very simple inside, other than a retaining ring for the Bearing and the two halves of the clutch , the rotor or electric coil and slipring Assy, and the Iron powder, it is a fairly simple assembly, After I get the powder, I will try to assembly it, but have questios about how this clutch keeps the powder in , as I didn't see any seals around the opening for the pump shaft. any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks. Attachments:
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 20:04:01 GMT -5
Other pictures of the failed clutch , you can notice some wear or rubbing marks, notice the shiny areas. Attachments:
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 20:06:15 GMT -5
The coil . in the other half, in the previous pictures you can see that some of the powder has caked in the surface of the drum, and it has hardened, I imagine some scothbrite would take care of it. Attachments:
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Post by joemiolli on Mar 16, 2010 20:12:12 GMT -5
The half that contains the bearing, the circlip behind the slip ring ( not present) and the cooling fins. I Understand that this is the most typical failure of this car, many cars end up in the junk yard because nobody knows how to repair them and in reality they are very simple, there are lots of this cars with brush problems or powder clutch problems, I couldnt understand why this car was slipping so much I believed it was the transaxle at first until I took the powder clutch out. First I noticed the powder coming out, secondly when I turned the clutch via the slip ring it would make grinding noises and it didnt move smoothly , grabbbing and seizing up. Attachments:
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Post by badshah on Mar 17, 2010 0:40:04 GMT -5
nice work. Can not wait to get my hands on one too  |
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Post by kd7iwp on Apr 17, 2010 15:05:04 GMT -5
This is very interesting to me. I just bought a 91 ecvt and it doesn't seem to move. When I lift the front wheels off the ground they will spin. I replaced the brushes with a used set that still has a bit of life in it, but didn't change anything. Now I'm going to spin the crankshaft by hand and peep through the brushes hole to make sure the sliprings are smooth. After that, will remove the tranny and checkout the clutch myself. I'm very interested in how yours turns out after you get the powder.
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Post by aron on May 29, 2015 7:30:49 GMT -5
The coil . in the other half, in the previous pictures you can see that some of the powder has caked in the surface of the drum, and it has hardened, I imagine some scothbrite would take care of it. cant pleass send me a foto of magnetick clutch ? i dont se wher pauder is |
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Post by senan7 on May 13, 2022 9:21:47 GMT -5
Hi, Guys, please keep this topic going. I need to replace the powder in the clutch again after 6 years. The change of gears is getting tough. I can find the powder but I do not know where is the clutch located and how to open it. Any instructions? Thank you. I have done two servicing of the Transmission itself and can give info on the changed parts and what failed as well.
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