EF12Engine VS Daihatsu CB-80 GTI Engine

[ninpo]

Hello Justyfriends

I have a question if there is anyone that knows if the Subaru 3 cyl EF12 engine is similar to the Daihatsu 3cyl engine? It feels that the original Daihatsuengine was a clone of the Subaru engine...as Toyota own parts of Fuji Heavy....and also own the Daihatsu plant...it feels strange if there where no relationship between thease manufacturers.

My idea is if it is too hard or impossible to take a Daihatsu CB-80 DOHC GTI engine and do a swap with the EF12 engine...Is there anyone who knows if the block at the flywheelside has similar looks as the Subaru EF12, and if the Daihatsuengine would fit with minor mods..or is it a dead end?

Ive have seen people on the internet that have fitted a Suzuki 4 cyl Swift 1600 GTI engine, to a Subaru Justy gearbox...It would be much alike with the 3 cylinder Daihatsu wich is more like the Subaru engine...anyone that have compared the blocks of the Daihatsu and Subaru 3 cylinders?? Would be very glad if someone got some knowledge;)

Yours
P

[SeattleJusty]

I just did a search and examined many pictures of the various incarnations of Daihatsu 3 cylinder engine and after looking at the front cover, oil filter location and distributor drive, I think they are unrelated to the EF12. Also, the bloodbath that was the recent discussion about the lineage of the EF10/EF12 between Stacks and I, didn't turn up anything about Daihatsus.
Your challenges in making a hybrid would most likely be in this order:

• Bore spacing
  
• Bolt pattern
  
• Water passages
  
• Piston-crown valve reliefs
  
• Cam pulley: size, teeth, protrusion
  

I would say that the infinitely easier option would be to mate the complete Daihatsu engine to the Justy transmission.



Also, please provide links to the evidence you found showing a Suzuki engine mated to the Justy gearbox. If they mate, they mate, whatever. . . BUT, I don't see how that engine could then possibly fit into a J10/J12 engine bay once mated to a Justy transmission seeing as how the EF10/EF12 harmonic balancer is millimeters away from the frame rail as is. Remember, the Justy engine from rear mating surface to harmonic balancer is less than 16" long.

Links please.

[ninpo]

Hi SeattleJusty:)

Ive did some quite deep reseach last night and did the conclution that the Daihatsu CB-80 3 cylinder DOHC engine could mate with a Subaru Justy transmission. The flywheelside on the Daihatsu engine has a metalsheet in wich one can make modifications in bolt pattern to fit the Subaru gearbox. Then it could be some conciderations about the flywheel and clutch..,maybe it vill be nesecery to use a Subaru flywheel with some mods too:)

The pros with the Daihatsu Charade CB-80 engine is that it is a pentroof 4 valve/cyl construction that makes it breath better and it is easier to gain power when tuning the engine..however i am concidering to tune a EF12 engine if i don't get hold of a Daihatsu engine...

Regards:)
P

[SeattleJusty]

Sept 22, 2009 11:38:33 GMT -5 @stacks said:

The bore of the CB series is 76mm while the EFs is 78mm;
stacks

Stacks,
can you tell us the bore spacing? The bore diameter can be different sizes in some cases and be ok for headswaps if the spacing is tolerable. If you've never read up on the venerable Jaguarl six, I recommend it. The original Jag six had one bore spacing and when they ran out of displacement and decided to increase the bore thus necessitating a longer engine block (greater bore spacing) Sir William Lyons told the engineers to try and make due with the original cylinder head if possible. That means that most of the Jaguar engines you will ever see have cylinders#1 and #6 quite offset from their respective combustion chambers and also cylinders #2 and #5 to a lesser degree. Uninteresting to some but utterly fascinating to me

[ninpo]

The CB-80 swap you speak of sounds sweet; 100 hp/Liter! First production engine to do so, no? Turbo'ed with nice, low compression(7.8:1?). Of course it will fit and of course it can be mated to gearbox; maybe a little machine work, wiring, sweat and money.

stacks[/quote]

Thanks for the comment Stacks:)Sounds nice that u like my plans on do a CB-80 swap...The whole idea from the begining was that i wanted to build a spareengine for my Justy and while doing that a old enginetuner like me could not leave the engine stock ;D I recently finished a rebuild and turboconversion on my Legacy EJ22 engine.. subarujusty.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=memberother&action=display&thread=2779 and now i want to lay my hands on a N/A engine build...

As i said before i have a vision on a CB-80 Daihatsu engine because it has 4 valve/cyl and i like the looks of it aswell. Despite the lack of 200cc less then my EF12 engine it would sertenly lurk some nice horsepower in the 1000cc Dai engine. it would be nice to port/flow the head to heavily increase the flowrate and add highlifting cams and raise the compression rate to say 10.5:1 and crown it with a a Megasquirt fuelinjection in conjuction with trottlebodies..wouldn't that be awesome

Imagine reving 9500rpm+ ohhhhh!! my god what a nice sound it would produce..If i don't get hold of a CB-80 Dai engine i have plans on do the same tuning and treatment on a EF12..ive seen one on the scrapyard that have only 130.000km on it's record..hehe and the swap would be a piece of cake..when the engine is tuned and ready:)

We vill se where it ends..and if i start this project i certenly vill upload some pics:)
Best regards
P

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[ninpo]

Yes Stacks

I am talking N/A build of either the CB-80 or EF12 engine.....I am having a big love for both N/A and turbocharged engines ;D

So if i get hold of a Daihatsu engine i vill rip of the turbocharger and all other turborelated equipment.....and then build a intake with trottlebodies...and on the exhaustside i vill build a 3-1 header:) The internal mods vill be lightened crank and H-profile conrods...with ARP bolts...froged pistons is also be added:)I vill also manufacture new billet camshafts with some nasty timing grinded to them

If i go for the EF12 i vill do a more moderate tuning..but still it vill be a raise of power to count with:)....Maybe it seems odd to not go for turbopower..as it is so effective to gain power..but as ive built engines for nearly 25 years both for street and rallycross...so i see it more as a fun and odd thing to see what one can do with a tiny little treecylinder package:)

Ok Stacks and all other living souls..,hear again sooner or later on this nice Justyforum:)
Regards
P