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Post by SUBIEJIM on Nov 24, 2004 19:54:43 GMT -5
Ok guys, Here is my situation. I have a chance to pick up a 1990 Justy 5dr Gl 4WD. It has MPFI and a ECVT trans. NO RUST, Nice interior, Good ECVT trans and 4wd system (So he says!) But,... The bottom end is shot! (Locked Up with no oil in the crankcase!) Last week I bought a 1989 Justy Gl 2WD to use for a brake and swaybar up-grade on a 88 Gen 1 Justy, it has a Carbed engine and a "toasted" ECVT Trans. This engine runs decent..Good oil pressure and compression..It could stand some carb work. (I hate Carbs!!!!) Question: Can I use the short block (Bottom End) from the 89 2WD ECVT, mate it to the head assembly with MPFI induction from the 90, and then bolt it to the 4WD ECVT trans in the 90 without a host of problems??? Has anyone out there done this successfully? My Subie parts books say the short blocks are different from Carb to MPFI. What "IS" the difference??? I hope one of you can tell me. Please help me guys...A rust free 5dr 4WD Justy needs to be saved!! I got a bunch of parts I would like to put to good use and I would love to have this car as a driver! Thanks in advance to any and all who who can help with info! Thanks, Jim
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Post by RustyJusty on Nov 25, 2004 16:18:37 GMT -5
I believe the only difference is the stroke length
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Nov 26, 2004 10:24:15 GMT -5
Rusty Justy,
Your response on the stroke difference prompted me to head up to my shop last night and work off some of my Thanksgiving dinner. I did some research in some of my old Subie Justy parts books to see if the reciprocating assemblies (Crank, Pistons, and Rods) were different from year to year, or from carb to mpfi. I was surprised to find out that on an 1189cc engine from 89-94 the above mentioned parts were the same regardless of induction. The only difference..The pistons, which were available in various under/over sized bore combinations. The basic 1189cc block is even the same from 89-94.
The book does show a bore and stroke difference on the 998cc engine compared to the 1189cc engine.
Thanks for your input! Jim
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Post by Matt on Nov 26, 2004 16:32:22 GMT -5
Everything bolts right up, except.... I think you've got an 89 block? is that correct... it may or may not have the castings to bolt on the "shaft extension thingy" for the equal length drive shafts... if not steal the shafts from that car... because your right side drive shaft will be to short, then the problem is whether it has the bigger brakes and hub... the first gen drive shafts had smaller splines or something.... But the engine will work.
Matt
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Nov 26, 2004 17:31:48 GMT -5
Matt...Budda Bless You!! ;D Yes, shortblock is an 89 carbureted ( Jan of 89 manufacture date). The car I want to put it in is a 90 4wd GL MPFI 5dr ECVT, I belive it has a late 89 build date due to low VIN # 752731 (The model year started @ 750001) I am not sure if this car has the equal length axle shafts but, it definetly has the bigger brakes (13" wheels) and the bigger gen 2 axle shafts (not small like gen 1) If the only problem is to tap threads into the mounting boss for the intermediate shaft hanger for the right side, Thats no problem! The book says the blocks are the same 89-94 so it "Should" be there..I hope! All the research I have done tells me it should interchange but, It don't hurt to ask around. Matt, thanks again for your help! Jim
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Post by Matt on Nov 26, 2004 17:41:55 GMT -5
The old 88 block I had didn't have the castings for all the lugs... but maybe it had two? (instead of three...) any way everying else is identical, but you'l have to strip it right down, I did it last week, put a 90 block in a 88 car, wasn't too bad, rushing, it took about 1-2 hrs once both motors were out to swap and reassemble, dont' forget things like new head gasket (must) , oil pump stuff etc, while your there.. it's worth it...
Matt
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Nov 26, 2004 18:51:18 GMT -5
Matt, Quick question...I too have an 88 Justy... It's a 4wd GL. It runs great but, it's carbureted. My future plans are to convert it to MPFI. Have you had any experience dropping the MPFI head and induction system onto a 88 block? I would like to keep my 88 powertrain (Bottom end, transaxle, axleshafts, driveshafts, rear diff etc.) only because 4wd 5 speed MPFI Justys are super rare here (Charlotte N.C.) But, occasionally I come across a dead 90-94 2wd DL or GL with MPFI...(Usually rod knock on #1 cyl or worse..balance shaft blown out the side of the block in the area of #1 cyl.) If I can bolt the top end and induction system on my 88, then I can use a MPFI wiring harness and processor from a donor car to make it work. Any Ideas?? Thanks, Jim
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Dec 4, 2004 18:28:36 GMT -5
Justy UPDATE: Well, I sealed the deal today with a $100.00 bill for the 90 4WD 5 door Justy with ECVT trans (The one I mentioned in the original post). I got it home and started to do some investigating. Motor was not locked up but, blown up! I got up under it and noticed a small hole in the oil pan near the drain plug (#1 cyl I suspect!).The block looks ok( no missing chunks!) and the engine still turns over but, botom end is shot. I hope the head can be salvaged For those of you out there who have crapped a #1 connecting rod in the same fashion, Did your cylinder head survive the experience undamaged? What should I look for when I open it up? I'd like to hear from you guys out there ;D The body has no rust and the car has had no body work done to it. The paint is perfect and original! It is complete with good hubs and axle shafts on all 4 corners. The spare tire has never been on the ground! I don't want to turn it into a "Parts Car"....It's WAAAY TOO NICE! Thanks for your replies in advance, Jim
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Dec 6, 2004 4:46:17 GMT -5
SUBIEJIM: Yeah, here I had an engine which was completely wrecked (just to explain completely: crank shaft and one rod had welded together, the rod was broke, balancer shaft broken, chain damaged, waterpump shaft broken, piston wrecked completely). But the head seemd to be ok. I also had an engine with a damaged rod where the piston keept hitting the head. The head was ok too. But I'd regrind both anyways - doesn't cost too much and minimises risk of head gasket failure. Anyways - I don't think that the rod is damaged in your case. If the connection between rod and crank shaft gets loose, your engine would mess up completely. This is because of the balancer shaft. The rod will crack it up. So I'd say you've got any other problem - I don't know which, maybe the former owner just hit some stone on the road or something. Keep us informed! Greetings, Klaus
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Dec 7, 2004 20:14:34 GMT -5
Klaus, Well, I tend to agree with you. I have an 89 GL that I used for a brake upgrade on a 88 gen 1 car. It spit #1 rod and blew the balance shaft out the side of the block. You could stick your whole hand in the hole! At first, Like you, I thought maybe this 90 Justy took a shot to the oil pan from a rock or road debris (I was hopefull! ). I had some time today, so I took a look at the edges of the hole. The metal was pushed out instead of in...Bad sign! I spun it over (It sounded sick!) and after about 3 revolutions it locked down. I turned it backwards by hand at the crank bolt and it turned free for a bit. Next I will drop the oil pan to see whats up....I will post the findings as soon as I can. Thanks for the words of advice, Maybe I will get lucky Jim
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Dec 8, 2004 4:46:24 GMT -5
Very bad signs on this I'm really interested what happened. Greetings, Klaus
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Post by Matt on Dec 19, 2004 9:14:42 GMT -5
Okay some where between 88, 89 , 90, lower end, head... I got lost...
The heads are totally changeable between Carb and EFI, the only problem is the older blocks don't have the castings for the drive shaft extension which allows for equal length front drive shafts... so you can put newer blocks in older cars, but if going the other way (older block in newer car you would need the unequal lenght (longer right side) front drive shaft and you would have to swap outboard ends as the spline size is different.
As for inspecting the head on the blown engine... if the lower bearing really went (as in exploded), and the engine ran for a bit, I would do a serious inspection of the valves and valve stems... the enertia on the up stroke can cause the sloppy piston to contact the valves when open... but you would see this marking the valve... and little dents on the top of the piston... no dents you should be good... dents... check the valve stems to ensure they are staight... (you MIGHT, I'm really not sure on this) be able to sue the valves from you older head if the new ones are bent... but again I don't know that...
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Dec 19, 2004 15:10:21 GMT -5
Matt, Sorry I sent you into a daze on this one! Actually, you answered my question. I just wanted to know if I could bolt on the 90-94 FI head and induction (intake and exhaut manifolds) onto my stock 88 bottom end and powertrain. Since the only difference in the block is the mounting pad for the equal length axle shafts (I'm keeping the ones on my 88 so I don't need the later block) the whole set up should bolt right up no sweat....Now as for the wiring harness, thats another story. Thanks, as always for your input! Jim
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Post by Matt on Dec 19, 2004 17:58:03 GMT -5
no worries... I am easily confused....."R2 over crest! I thought you said L6 opens 400"
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Post by DumbUglyDragon on Feb 24, 2005 17:09:31 GMT -5
So I take it from all of this that the heads from an EFI engine will fit on a carb engine?
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Post by Matt on Feb 25, 2005 16:48:43 GMT -5
Dragon... yes they will, but intermediate shaft for the front drive shaft will have no place to bolt up to... (on lower portion of block) Perhaps somewhere in this world... carbed Justys came with the equal length shafts.. in which case you would be fine...
But yes head will bolt to block.
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Jun 25, 2005 18:17:16 GMT -5
Latest update on the 90 Justy: Now that the nice weather is here and I have taught my last automotive class @ CPCC until mid August. I have finally gotten serious and removed the engine and ECVT trans from the little 5 door. I just finished disassembling the engine an hour ago and here is what I found: Crankshaft: # 1 rod journal blackened from excessive heat, The counter weight is banged up (As suspected, the #1 rod let go from the crank), # 2 rod journal is OK, #3 rod journal got hot (Bearing started to spin) Mains showed signs of grooving ( Like a 45 record...Baby!) Balance Shaft: Broken in 4 places (Water pump bolt broken, sheared water pump gear at balance shaft bearing journal.) Block: Small chunk broken off the #1 Cyl skirt at the bottom of cyl bore on the balance shaft side. (Small chunk no coolant leak) Small "Chinks" down low in the cyl bore down below ring traval. (This is why it was partially "Locked Up" The bottom of the piston was hitting the #1 counter weight!) Small dents in the cast iron on the roof of the crankcase. (No external cracks that I can see but, I need to clean the block) Pistons and Rods: #1; All 45+ pieces I found fit nicely into a Glad freezer bag.. But, hey at least it was all there! #2 Is still usable, #3 Piston good but rod is shot! Bearings: Mains all down to the copper. Bearing spread (Holds bearings tight against the caps and the bulkheads for heat transfer) was non exsistent.. The bearings fell out when crank was removed! The rod bearings were a different story..The only one that told me anything was #2 since it was not extra crispy like the others...It was down to the copper and severely delaminated (Chunks were missing from shell but, not deposited on the #2 crank journal) Cylinder Head: #1 piston "Kissed" the exhaust valve at least twice as, I can see 2 fresh cresents in that area. (I think it may have gotten one of the intake valves too!) The valves don't concern me, I just hope the head is not cracked (My 88 carbed Justy needs this for a FI conversion!) Well, That's the the whole story!! Lucky for me I just bought a 93 Justy DL FWD FI with the 5 speed manual trans. It has 94,000 mi and runs great. (I still plan on doing a total reseal and bearings). I bought this car at a salvage auction 2 weeks ago for $300.00. This is alot more than I would usually pay for a Justy but, as Larry the cable guy says..."Git R Done!!!" I'll post again when I get the little door running Thanks to all of you folks out there who responded with help and info back when I started this post. Thanks, Jim PS...Any thoughts on what may have caused this?
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Post by Esteban on Jun 26, 2005 6:27:20 GMT -5
Jim, YIPES! I think that engine definetly BLEW !! Hope you can get the car going again.
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Aug 8, 2005 20:32:10 GMT -5
Well...As promised, here is the latest on my 90 4WD ECVT 5 door. At the time of my last post the blown engine had been removed/inspected and I was getting ready to pull the replacement engine from my 93 Justy parts car. Now for the latest:... I pulled the engine from the 93 parts car with 94,000 mi on it and decided to do only a clean up and reseal on it as it leaked oil from every crack and seal in the engine(Typical Justy)! Well, for those of you who have ever pealed an onion you know where this is going...My original reseal plan soon grew into the replacement of the following parts after I did a complete cleaning and inspection:.... Rings, Main bearings, Rod bearings, Chain and guide, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Timing Belt, Drive Belt, Spark Plugs, Plug Wires, Cap, and Rotor Button, Only then.. Did I finally get around to all the new gaskets and seals. ( I know what you folks are thinking..I hope he measured/Plastigaged everything and installed the rings correctly)...Yup, I followed all the procedures and specs in the service manual and all went well!!! Now for the good part:.... I put the engine and the ECVT trans back in the car this past weekend and drove it for the 1st time today...Ran great!! Excellent oil pressure, No leaks or noises. Trans moves car forward and rearward with no strange noises or jerking. Now for the not so good part:.... The ECVT Clutch temp light comes on 10 seconds after start up. I ran an ECVT diagnostic and got a code 35 "Line Pressure Solenoid System" book says "Line pressure solenoid output circuit open or shorted" Things to check: Wire harness and connector, Line pressure solenoid, Control unit. Has anyone out there had this problem and fixed it?? If so, how so? Please post with any info you may have as the factory service manual is kind of weak on step by step diagnostics for this problem. Overall I am happy...The car was blown up and left for DEAD 3 years ago, Today it moved under its own power!! Soon she will be scooting in and out of traffic again....Another Justy saved!!! ;D I just need to sort out a few more issues. Thanks to all of you who posted for your help / advice and thanks to all for reading this thread! Jim
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Post by Matt on Aug 9, 2005 22:20:50 GMT -5
Hey
sound good with the motor!, sorry no advice on the ECTV...
Keep your eyes peeled to the rally forum... where you will soon see the results of throwing a rod at 6000 rpm... under full load... then driving the car to a safe location on the side of a hot stage road... then onto a trailer.. then into a shop! man have we got bits.. it was running for a while with a broken crank... and only one piston still attached!
I'm sure we could have finished the stage if we had of kept our foot in it! ha!
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