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Post by Armageddous on Sept 17, 2007 22:31:18 GMT -5
So, I think I'm going to start a little project on my car. I got an 88 Justy, 4wd GL. 5speed. I have a rear diff pot. out of a 92 Justy.. I'm thinking about welding it solid, and removing my front axles for some sort of sweet build. Anyone ever locked one of these?
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ssnsltd
That's 'gona leave a mark. . .
Posts: 81
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Post by ssnsltd on Sept 18, 2007 2:18:25 GMT -5
Hello,
is there a diference between the 88 (gen1) and 92 (gen2) rear diff ? As for your project, my uncle ran a jeep around like that for years.
thanks, David
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Post by fraser9764 on Sept 18, 2007 5:51:09 GMT -5
yes it can be done, the justy lacks a centre diff, meaning the front and rear wheels are always turning at the same speed, hence the reason justys dont like full lock on dry tarmac in 4wd. i had thought about dooing the same thing and probably will do just for a bit of fun. i would get a 2wd gearknob though and short out the existing switch as you dont want to accidentaly knock it into front wheel drive while driving around.
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Post by Armageddous on Sept 18, 2007 21:34:01 GMT -5
The rear diffs are visually the same, from what I can see, not sure about ratios or small differences, but I'll see a little down the road. I do have concerns about the rear driveshaft, because mine is already sloppy in the ujoints, and no parts store can hunt them down for me.. just try to sell me a whole driveshaft for $700. Maybe carry my other front axle with me? hehe.
Good idea on the shifter knob btw.
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Post by ianvissers on Oct 9, 2007 5:32:11 GMT -5
The diff housings changed in '89 from 1st gen to second. The have different mounting locations completely so an '88 diff is out of the question if you're planning to use it on an '89+ car. I know because I have an '88 and 4 '89+
As for the 1 removed CV, this could be messy unless you seperate the outboard shaft unit and have it stay in the hub so everything stays clean. Also I'm pretty sure the bearings have to load against the axle shaft and spindle nut.
The driveshaft is very weak as stated previously, if you're that serious you can try to get a local driveshaft shop replace all but the ends and have it re balanced for you. Not sure about cost on that one.
The nice thing is, the Justy has the simples diff ever designed to replace, Good probably to weld one up and have one for daily road use.
One thing I think you should really consider if you want the rear end to kickout really easy on snow or loose ground and it costs next to nothing. Use the diff from an Automatic ECVT, The ratio is out quite a bit so the rears end up turning slower than the fronts in 4wd and it's a blast on loose ground and even more fun in snow. It gives you the feeling of a rear wheel drive car but you still have amazing traction and incredible directional control at all times. And no messing around with driveshaft, CVs, or diff welding.
Just make sure you have your finger on the button to disengage 4wd before you hit dry pavement again or the rearend will scream and the whole car will jump and bang as it pops out on it's own. The only cheaper way to get the same affect without replacing the diff is by sizing tires differently front to rear.
I know the ECVT diff has this affect because when I first got my car I needed to replace the whole rear suspension (Everything) and I pulled it all out of an ECVT car. It was a blast for the first half of the winter but then I put the 5-speed diff back in and I just had amazing traction (no fun in that). I'll be putting it back in for the snow season this year again.
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Post by Armageddous on Oct 12, 2007 9:28:22 GMT -5
The diffpots are different, eh? Well thats no-good. I have an 88 right now and the rear end is growling away. Probably has no oil in it, I was hoping a 92 would fit. The 92 pot I have is out of an automatic .. maybe my project is going in the crapper! Anyways. My driveshaft still clangs and bangs around, I should fix that before I continue... I think I'm going to remove it and take it to a parts store and ask them to match a ujoint to it, then I'll just pound it in or something. Thanks.. good info. -Terry
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Post by Scoobaru on Oct 12, 2007 13:41:44 GMT -5
I've got two spare 88 diffs if you want to drive to calgary.
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Post by Armageddous on Oct 14, 2007 13:06:15 GMT -5
Haha, crazy, I just got back from Calgary 3 weeks ago. Damn! -Terry
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Post by ianvissers on Oct 15, 2007 1:50:52 GMT -5
'88s are really hard to come by. the major difference I've found between them
12" vs 13" wheels '88- rust like they're in the sea, but I think the look great, very stubborn and boxy looking. '88- have thinner metal, just hit the roof and you'll know what I mean. '89+ have front and rear sawybars, I think '88- might have front. '89+ has heavier front axles, hubs, and brakes, '88 use about same weight axels front and rear. '89+ has a much stronger rear differential setup with a heavy front crossmember and an extra rear mount. '89+ came fuel injected (much stronger and more reliable, harder to boost from what I've heard). '89 came both F.I. or carbed. '89 has more modern column combination switches. (I like the old style better though)
Truth is '89+ is a way better car in almost all aspects (expecially for our climate) it's getting harder and harder to find '88- the only one I've ever seen in person is my own and it's just a field car.
If I was you I would wait for something '89+ to come along so you can actually find good parts for it still and have something repairable.
If you are not going to turbocharge it, go F.I. but if you are go Carbed '89
I belive the '89 RS had an optional LSD rearend as well (found spec on ALLDATA but I'm not 100% on that)
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Post by underdog on Oct 15, 2007 9:34:02 GMT -5
on loose surfaces i found easiest way to get the car to rotate during any event I compete in is to run "extra" studding in front tires and less in the rears. It was VERY predicatble and easy to power oversteer ( didn't think you could say that about a justy... power haha )
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Oct 15, 2007 14:17:38 GMT -5
'88s are really hard to come by. the major difference I've found between them 12" vs 13" wheels '88- rust like they're in the sea, but I think the look great, very stubborn and boxy looking. '88- have thinner metal, just hit the roof and you'll know what I mean. '89+ have front and rear sawybars, I think '88- might have front. '89+ has heavier front axles, hubs, and brakes, '88 use about same weight axels front and rear. '89+ has a much stronger rear differential setup with a heavy front crossmember and an extra rear mount. '89+ came fuel injected (much stronger and more reliable, harder to boost from what I've heard). '89 came both F.I. or carbed. '89 has more modern column combination switches. (I like the old style better though) Truth is '89+ is a way better car in almost all aspects (expecially for our climate) it's getting harder and harder to find '88- the only one I've ever seen in person is my own and it's just a field car. If I was you I would wait for something '89+ to come along so you can actually find good parts for it still and have something repairable. If you are not going to turbocharge it, go F.I. but if you are go Carbed '89 I belive the '89 RS had an optional LSD rearend as well (found spec on ALLDATA but I'm not 100% on that) Actually, North American cars weren't fuel injected in 1989. That came at the 90-91 changeover.
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Post by blackjusty on Oct 15, 2007 18:03:16 GMT -5
I have popped the clutch at high rpms off the line in the dirt many times and my car always leaves 4 marks, so it is 4wd. After having to replace a motormount I haven't done it lately. Also around corners in the dirt I love the 4wd and it is fun as long as I remember it has a tendency to understeer and adjust the driving style to compensate because oversteer is faster. Also in the snow I can feel the positraction and there is really no chance of getting stuck. I had an AWD Imprezza and I don't know what happened but I got stuck one time on a speed bump in the ice, because it would only turn one wheel in that situation, what a hassle that was! I like that I can depend on a locked system , the Justy would have tore it up in the same situation. The other thing is the Justy has just the right amount of power and weight in the snow. Any more power and you wouldn't go any faster really, you would just spin the wheels more.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Oct 15, 2007 22:23:44 GMT -5
I have popped the clutch at high rpms off the line in the dirt many times and my car always leaves 4 marks, so it is 4wd. After having to replace a motormount I haven't done it lately. Also around corners in the dirt I love the 4wd and it is fun as long as I remember it has a tendency to understeer and adjust the driving style to compensate because oversteer is faster. Also in the snow I can feel the positraction and there is really no chance of getting stuck. I had an AWD Imprezza and I don't know what happened but I got stuck one time on a speed bump in the ice, because it would only turn one wheel in that situation, what a hassle that was! I like that I can depend on a locked system , the Justy would have tore it up in the same situation. The other thing is the Justy has just the right amount of power and weight in the snow. Any more power and you wouldn't go any faster really, you would just spin the wheels more. The Justy does not have positraction but rather open differentials at the front and rear. The transmission having no center differential is what makes for such excellent traction [further helped by narrow tyres]. Also, positraction is a term trademarked by General Motors and was first featured as an option on Chevrolet models beginning in the 1950's.
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Post by Armageddous on Oct 17, 2007 0:37:08 GMT -5
I'm gonna dump this project. I think my car will do better if I return it to normal operating condition.. then maybe I'll mess with it. I still kinda want to swap the rear diff pot for something a little stronger, seeing as how mine growls like a hungry bear. Thanks for the input. -Terry
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Post by Scoobaru on Oct 17, 2007 11:51:16 GMT -5
Just going back to Ian's 88 vs 89+ points above, I came across a couple of interesting stats in comparing specs in an 88 owners manual and an 89 owners manual. Listed ground clearance for an 89 is 5.1inches and for an 88 is 6.1inches. And true that going from carb to FI takes you from 67hp to 73hp (+9%), but per my shop manual the curb weight of an 88 4wd is 1785lbs, and the spec I found on the web for a gen2 is 1955lbs (+9.5%). Hmmm.
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Post by SUBIEJIM on Oct 17, 2007 15:37:02 GMT -5
Just going back to Ian's 88 vs 89+ points above, I came across a couple of interesting stats in comparing specs in an 88 owners manual and an 89 owners manual. Listed ground clearance for an 89 is 5.1inches and for an 88 is 6.1inches. And true that going from carb to FI takes you from 67hp to 73hp (+9%), but per my shop manual the curb weight of an 88 4wd is 1785lbs, and the spec I found on the web for a gen2 is 1955lbs (+9.5%). Hmmm. Yeah, The Gen 2 is a much better but, heavier car! I love my Gen 1 because it "is" so light weight. Realistically, you can put many of the better Gen 2 parts on a Gen 1. For example.. Bigger front brakes, Solid front and rear anti sway bars. Heck, If you get ambitious you can swap in the 90-94 FI engine and trans axle and then upgrade to the equal length axle shafts with better front hubs and bearings. This is a "Big" Job as you must use the wiring harness and components from a complete parts car but, heres the payoff...9% increase in HP and a 9.5% increase in weight reduction. Thats an almost a 20% real world increase in output over a "Stock" Gen 1 Justy! Ya gotta love it!! Jim
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Post by dgkustomz on Dec 2, 2007 21:46:00 GMT -5
88 rear diff has 22 spline axles and 89 and newer has 23 spline axles but the diff. case is the same the way it mounts in the car is different 89 and newer bolts to front and rear crossmembers and 88 bolts to a front crossmember and a single mount in the the rear no clue on axle ratio would assume its the same? does anyone know what the rear axle lengths are in 89 and newer and outboard spline count???
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Post by justythrasher on Dec 8, 2008 2:40:46 GMT -5
Weld lock is the way to go, did it to my 89 rs and it goes anywhere you like,as well as mean helicopters on wet grass :-)
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Post by natnov on Dec 20, 2009 12:24:36 GMT -5
Welding the rear means that when you turn the wheels can no longer turn at different speeds....meaning chirping noises on dry pavement.....even if they are not being driven by the engine [ie in FWD mode]....fun off road or in the snow but not on the daily commute.
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Post by dgkustomz on Jan 4, 2010 10:40:04 GMT -5
update just in case anyone wants to know 88 rear axles are the same lenght as 89 i bolted in the 89 diff and axles in my 88
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