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Post by Vågen on Jun 18, 2015 9:45:40 GMT -5
Hey team, I started hearing something rattling at the back of my car and for a very busy day or 2 I just assumed it was something rolling around in the back. Turns out the part of the arm which attaches to the swaybar endlink on the passenger rear has broken off. Anyone have a similar issue? I know a lot of the off-road community does sans-swaybar, and I really do not think it would be much of a safety issue with the low center of gravity that the Justy is rocking. I guess what I am wondering, from a performance/economic standpoint if I should just remove the rear swaybar to make it more offroad friendly, find a welder to see if I can get it back on, or replace the arm from a junk dealer. Opinions/comments? Attachments:
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Post by madmatt on Jun 18, 2015 14:52:56 GMT -5
As I'm sure you are aware... sway bars are sorta black magic voodoo... and their effects depend on a whole lotta "stuff". Interestingly, the first gen justys did not have rear sway bars and I believe, but don't quote me, a smaller front sway bar. Generally speaking adding or stiffing the rear sway bar will make the car "rotate" more once it's slipping. As you are more likely to un-weight the inside rear wheel and loose traction. Removing it will make the car "push" more and the front will slip earlier. Most drivers prefer this, as it means they won't swap ends so easily. FWIW, I have removed the front on the rally Justy to get more forward bite... Car rolls a bit, but who cares. So no sway bars either end AS for fixing it... welding would be my route if I was going to, provided the control arm is not "really rusty" Oh, and as for replacing the arm... That big long bolt that goes through the bearing carrier, yeah that big one... youse neva gonna gets it out... so you're cutting and replacing or buying the whole control arm and carrier from the wrecker.
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Post by trevoroni on Jun 19, 2015 10:04:34 GMT -5
I had the same problem with the broken tab on the a arm when I picked my car up. I removed the sway bar completely and haven't died yet so you should be fine.
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Post by Vågen on Jun 19, 2015 11:22:19 GMT -5
A thought:
If I need to take this to the welder anyways- any thoughts on an improvement on design (wider bar, more reliable setup?)
I swapped the rear bar on my WRX for a beefier one and had tower braces and KYB struts, with super sticky tires. It was awesome. I am not expecting that. I'd actually like it to eventually have more ground clearance and be better in the snow. Would a bar increase or decrease ice/skid reliability?
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jun 19, 2015 11:23:54 GMT -5
with a broken tab the sway bar isnt doing anything. if its not attached at both ends then its just decorative.
you will get a little less roll stiffness under transitions and the rear will wallow a bit more, but it might be tought o notice on a car this old.
id pull it just so it wasnt rattling around.
for the record my front drivers sway bar mount is cracked most of the way through. considered welding it and then putting some washers on it and welding those in place. if a part fatigue cracks, it WILL crack again at the weld unless you add more material.
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Post by madmatt on Jun 19, 2015 23:36:16 GMT -5
A thought: I'd actually like it to eventually have more ground clearance and be better in the snow. Would a bar increase or decrease ice/skid reliability? Define "better"... You'll have more grip without it... The car will not roll so much with it... it will "feel" better, but not necessarily "be" better. It will be less likely to spin without. Rally car 101 for snow and ice. First do no stupid Then remove all sway bars Then find softer springs. Then find softer dampers. Then find GRIP
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 9:58:36 GMT -5
It all depends on what you want to do with your Justy. If you mostly drive it on roads like just about everyone, then the anti-sway bar is good...it's a safety feature and it makes on-road driving much better. The Gen 1 had a hollow front anti-sway bar. When they went to the Gen II, Subaru made the front anti-sway bar solid and much heavier and added a rear anti-sway bar. They didn't do that for no reason, and modern cars are still being built with anti-sway bars. If you are an expert rally driver like Matt, then go for it. If you drive on roads in which deer, mouth-breathers, slow children, etc, may jump out in front of your car, then I recommend fixing the rear anti-sway bar. I added a rear anti-sway bar to my Gen 1 and welded gussets on the rear control arm tabs. I also welded and gusseted the cracks on the front brackets and added washers as spOngebob mentioned. In an emergency evasive maneuver the body roll can turn into a roll-over accident very easily and the last thing you want to do in a Justy is roll it. This thread shows some of what I did on the rear, but it's a little hard to see since I painted it black. subarujusty.proboards.com/thread/3366/custom-bumper-trailer-hitch-rear
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Post by madmatt on Jun 20, 2015 20:51:07 GMT -5
If you are an expert rally driver like Matt, then go for it. buwaa haa haa.. expert... thats funny. i weld better then i drive... and my welds suck. but Ferox is probably right on a daily driven machine. and given the now known stiffer gen 2 front bar, certainly the rear bar will keep the car balanced. perhaps a good winter street set up would be to pull the rear bar and use the gen 1 front bar but the gen 1 is lighter... also bear in mind any raising above stock height is going to raise roll center and make the car roll more more (both more's intended )
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Post by nipper on Jun 20, 2015 23:06:58 GMT -5
This is oddly a common thing.
GL's have the sway bar. They seem to snap links all at the same spot. Mine snapped after a pothole (which oddly took out a wheel cylinder too). That was a year ago and i havent gotten around to fixing the tab.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jun 22, 2015 12:59:46 GMT -5
A thought: I'd actually like it to eventually have more ground clearance and be better in the snow. Would a bar increase or decrease ice/skid reliability? Define "better"... You'll have more grip without it... The car will not roll so much with it... it will "feel" better, but not necessarily "be" better. It will be less likely to spin without. Rally car 101 for snow and ice. First do no stupid Then remove all sway bars Then find softer springs. Then find softer dampers. Then find GRIP this doesnt pertain to running on solid tarmac like 99% of us do full time. you want a car to roll a little to soak up the lateral forces that would otherwise be transferred to the tire when on a slippery surface. This keeps the forces lower and keeps you from overcoming the static friction of the tire on the surface (what little of that there is on ice or effectively none if its mud). The sway bar is a big torsional spring. its effectively what cars used to only have before they used a coil spring. Sway bars / anti roll bars are there to support quick changes in weight shift or transition. So when entering a corner kind of wildly they eat up the body roll and try to keep the car upright. They are part of what you could consider "total spring rate" that each corner sees. They also are better on smoother roads and they link both sides of the car together and can cause some jarring to one or both wheels as you drive over broken surfaces. If you dont care about one end of your car leaning/rolling in harder than the other on corner entry then i wouldnt worry about it. however since this is the rear i personally dont care. it can potentially make the car much sloppier and puts more torsional load on the already soft chassis. I personally drive hard enough every day that i would want it. I hate cars that wallow. its a wonder i keep driving this thing as is.
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Post by madmatt on Jun 22, 2015 13:50:23 GMT -5
coemgen specifically asked about snow...
not tarmac.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jun 23, 2015 12:09:33 GMT -5
reading comprehension > Sp0ngebob
thats my bad.
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Post by madmatt on Jun 23, 2015 14:23:46 GMT -5
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Post by southerner on Jul 16, 2015 18:58:45 GMT -5
What do you mean by "rattling" ?
Is it by chance a sound like a bag full of spanners on the trunk ? i'll drop under the car and see if my arm is broken.. just in case..
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