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Post by marcel on May 4, 2014 16:16:27 GMT -5
Hello,
My so far extremely loyal Justy 1.2 manual carb 1990 broke down,and I don't know how to fix it.
The first fuse (top left), being for the engine and emergency lights, blew out whilst driving.
After replacing it, it blew out in a few kilometers again. Now it blows out nearly all the time. Most of the times immediately when trying to put the fuse in. Even when the key is not in the car and thus no engine nothing running. Sometimes it works to get a fuse in without blowing out, but then it blows is few hundred meters or max a couple of kilometers.
Everything else is fine. There is oil in the engine, sufficient gas, cilinders move well when starting.
How can I go about finding the electrical fault?
Many thanks!!!!
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Post by gearheadeh on May 4, 2014 16:47:32 GMT -5
Hello, My so far extremely loyal Justy 1.2 manual carb 1990 broke down,and I don't know how to fix it. The first fuse (top left), being for the engine and emergency lights, blew out whilst driving. After replacing it, it blew out in a few kilometers again. Now it blows out nearly all the time. Most of the times immediately when trying to put the fuse in. Even when the key is not in the car and thus no engine nothing running. Sometimes it works to get a fuse in without blowing out, but then it blows is few hundred meters or max a couple of kilometers. Everything else is fine. There is oil in the engine, sufficient gas, cilinders move well when starting. How can I go about finding the electrical fault? Many thanks!!!! Welcome Marcel, A fuse blows when there is a short in the circuit, You identified the circuit as being the one that takes care of the engine AND the emergency lights. Light bulbs are a common place to have a short. Remove and inspect all of the light bulbs that would flash in an emergency. I bet 1 of them will have signs of being burnt or where 1 of the 2 elements inside the bulb has broken off on 1 end and is shorting to the other filament. Hopefully after working with the light bulbs you have fixed it. If not you will be looking at all of the wires for the engine looking for a wire with rubbed off coverings allowing the current to short out to ground.
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Post by marcel on May 5, 2014 2:07:05 GMT -5
Hi,
Much appreciated, very happy with the recommendation. One thing: I have had to leave the car 30km from home. So it may take a while before I can try the suggestion. I let you know.
Marcel
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Post by sp0ngebob on May 5, 2014 11:17:06 GMT -5
i had this exact same problem with a different fuse and it turned out to be a bad ground.
On my 89, theres a ground for the battery in two places, one starter ground and then a braided steel cable on the right hand side of the engine bay that grounds to the frame and the radiator support. One of the rad support grounds had come loose.
also a word of advice, go to an autoparts store and get a 15amp breaker. they reset every time you remove them. It saved me a lot of money in fuses (5 bucks for a 4 pack) when testing this issue. Its also good to have as a backup in case you get stranded. its an "infinite use" fuse.
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Post by marcel on May 6, 2014 12:44:54 GMT -5
Tnx guys!! Just now back at my Justy (stranded downtown Amsterdam where I left it for now). Checked all emergency lights and wires. Seems all in fine shape. Just to be sure I left the bulbs out. The problem though is still the same. Even without the car key put in place and thus the car fully switched off, the fuse already blows when I replace it. When inserting, it sparks and is burnt. I would be happy to check the grounding you mentioned, but don't fully understand (lack of English and lack of car understanding). Could you explain a bit more how I can check that if that 'double' ground is still OK? Also great advice on the breaker. Already spilt 12 fuses...
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Post by Armageddous on May 8, 2014 22:18:35 GMT -5
According to my diagram, that fuse feeds a few things. ROOM LIGHT, EFC UNIT (computer), STOP LIGHT SWITCH, CLOCK, KEY WARNING SWITCH.
Room light: The light when you open your door. Turn the switch OFF. The switch has 3 positions, OFF, DOOR, and ON.
Efc unit (computer): This controls your engine. On LHD vehicles it is located above the clutch pedal. It will have two or three yellow connectors, unplug them all.
Stop light switch: Located on the brake pedal bracket, unplug it. It is a 2 wire switch.
Clock: You will have to remove your heater panel to unplug this. Do it and unplug it.
Key warning switch: Located in the ignition switch, I am not sure how to disconnect this.
If you unplug all those and it still blows the fuse then I will pull diagrams from work and figure this out. If the fuse doesn't blow, leave it in and plug components in one by one until it blows.
Terry
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Post by sp0ngebob on May 9, 2014 11:19:45 GMT -5
double ground = 1 cable that attaches to the engine or transmission on one end and the other end has two spots where it attaches to the frame or chassis.
ground = earth in some languages.
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Post by marcel on May 11, 2014 16:33:03 GMT -5
That diagram is a big help. I just visited my car briefly (as it is still where it stranded, about 30km from home) and indeed that diagram seems to be right.
Tomorrow I go back and disconnect all mentioned elements and will let you know
To be continued
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Post by marcel on May 12, 2014 17:10:09 GMT -5
Did the recommended unplugs. Great suggestion. Turns out it is the Efc unit. Wires in perfect condition, but unplugging and fuse blow issue gone.
Left it a while unplugged, put the 3 yellow connectors back and... No more fuse blow. Did a little test drive, also using all that s on that fuse (such as alarmlights, indoor light etc) and seems to be all good.
What s next, just trust the EFC unit is happy and all good after the unplug? Would there be any logic to this?
What if the EFC faults again, can you just replace it from a donor car?
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Post by Armageddous on May 12, 2014 22:47:32 GMT -5
The chances that is is the EFC unit it self is pretty unlikely. More than likely something it is feeding is shorting out. Your best hope is to have it fault again and unplug each connector to see if the draw goes away, if it doesn't, plug it back in to narrow down which connector the fault is on. (Tho this may be skewed because you may have a draw on "plug 1" while "plug 2" provides the power, if you know what I mean) In any event here is a diagram to help you along your way. If I had to guess, I would say it's a short in the choke. Terry
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Post by marcel on Jun 12, 2014 11:01:33 GMT -5
Tnx so much!!
I was about to take out the champagne when unplugging the EFC solved it, but reading your comment I understand it is likely not the EFC. So probably I am lucky the issue hasnt resurfaced.
If it faults again, you gave recommendations how to find out the faulty part.
However........would there be any sensible thing I could do to find out what may be faulting before it breaks down again?
Are there any measurements or so I can do to verify if it may indeed be the choke or so?
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Post by Armageddous on Jun 12, 2014 21:13:59 GMT -5
All I can recommend is give a visual inspection of connectors and such to see if anything is obvious. If you can't duplicate it, you can't fix it.
Remember to tap test things to simulate a rough road terrain, it can make things act up.
Terry
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Post by marcel on Jun 13, 2014 9:48:15 GMT -5
Tap test :-)?
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henrypaz
PLEASE: easy way to install hitachi carb? it took HOURs for 2 front nuts last time!
Posts: 106
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Post by henrypaz on Feb 5, 2015 14:59:42 GMT -5
Jiggle all the relevant wires and connectors. I read about a tester to use in locating a short to ground. Basically it is just a low amp bulb soldered into a fuse body that you can plug into the slot that is blowing the fuses. It will allow you to notice when the short "makes" or "breaks" as you jiggle things about. I made mine with short leads, but I can now see the usefulness of leads long enough to take your little light with you as you crawl around under the hood. Another suggestion I read of is to use a compass to find a short. They said the needle would deflect due to current in the wire. (It should, in theory.) When you get to the break, it should/ might change the needle position? Good Luck!
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 18, 2015 0:27:32 GMT -5
You can use a signal flasher, it will break the circuit when it shorts. I would still use a fuse on the supply side of the flasher (IE before the load).
Terry
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Post by madmatt on Feb 19, 2015 0:13:23 GMT -5
just found this old thread.
this is why terry is awesome...
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