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Post by kalarr on Feb 25, 2013 10:56:13 GMT -5
I have been looking at DustysJustys.com at components for a rebuild. Any info or opinions on that site? Good source?
I'm probably going to have a machine shop take a look at the block and crankshaft and tell me what my options are.
My instincts tell me a used engine may be hard to find for this obscure little car..
The good news is that she only paid $200 for this car six months ago. So we're not at too much of a loss here. Though it was her daily mode of transportation and she loved the selectable 4wd up here in snowy Maine.
The body is in fair condition. No major rust or damage making it totally unworthy of a rebuilt engine, but I would feel better about doing it if the body was in pristine shape.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 25, 2013 11:08:26 GMT -5
If and when I'm in the same boat as you my first search would be for a used engine...maybe eBay. If I can't find one then I'd try to find the cheapest running parts car and swap over. If that doesn't work then I'd rebuild. If that's too expensive I'd look at swapping in another engine, probably a Suzuki Swift GTi 4 banger with an adapter plate to the Justy transmission.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 25, 2013 15:53:42 GMT -5
I have everything removed from this engine block (throttle cables, vacuum lines, exhaust, coolant lines, ground wires, motor mounts).
The only thing holding it back is it's attachment to the transmission. I have removed 3 bolts between the transmission and the block as well as the little bracket above the 3rd bolt in the back. Are there more than these things that must be removed to separate the two? I can see the seam wiggling around a little bit, but will not move apart.
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Post by blacklight on Feb 25, 2013 18:12:14 GMT -5
Have you removed the starter? Basically, you just need to run an eye around the entire bellhousing for bolts, and undo them.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 25, 2013 18:51:12 GMT -5
Have you removed the starter? Basically, you just need to run an eye around the entire bellhousing for bolts, and undo them. Yes I have taken out the starter. I am nearly positive that all necessary bolts are removed. However, it seems like there may be a couple pins holding it back.. Do I need to punch these out?
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Post by kalarr on Feb 25, 2013 19:20:42 GMT -5
Is it silly to think that I can remove the engine without removing the transmission?
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 25, 2013 21:32:09 GMT -5
If it's an automatic you have to undo the torque converter. There are 3 bolts on the lower motor mount, a long one through the starter, one at the back near the tail shaft housing and I think 2 others somewhere.
The pins are dowels, they are for alignment and while they can get stuck, they should not prevent it from coming apart. Try jacking up the bellhousing of the trans to take the stress off the input shaft.
Terry
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Post by badshah on Feb 25, 2013 21:39:03 GMT -5
do not punch out the pins they act as guides when you put the transmission back, you just have to pry the transmission and block apart, probably slide something in between them near each pin. Be gentle on the bell housing though. There would be about 6 bolts, there is also a engine/transmission mount, on the cross-member, not sure how it is connected though. You may get some idea from here s289.beta.photobucket.com/user/badshah4evr/library/Justy%20EF12
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Post by kalarr on Feb 26, 2013 11:08:46 GMT -5
It is a standard transmission.
Anyone removed just the engine without removing the tranny? I have 5 bolts removed that connect the transmission to the engine - two of which also held the starter on. I have also removed the entire lower engine mount beam, and a little "bracket" that is down low on the back of the motor and was fastened to part of the tranny.
I have of course removed the other engine mounts and all hoses, cables, wires, ect.
Feel confident I have everything removed that must be. Just can't seem to get the two apart.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 26, 2013 20:26:58 GMT -5
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 26, 2013 22:00:39 GMT -5
Wow, cool, I love tear downs. Did you take the oil pump apart yet? I would be interested to see what happened in there, maybe the sprocket seized and that's why the chain broke?
Here's a tip, don't lay the carburetor on it's side, all the "crap" from the float bowl will become detached and could plug up your passages.
Your head bolts are concerning, looks like one of the cylinders had coolant in it. The top of piston #3 is a much different colour then the others, I would take a good look at the cylinder head for cracks or a bad gasket.
Have you looked around for a used engine yet?
Terry
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Post by justyjuggler on Feb 27, 2013 7:43:20 GMT -5
Consider that flying debris from the thrown rod jammed the balance shaft long enough to break the chain.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 27, 2013 12:32:10 GMT -5
I have not opened up the block yet. I'm going to today. Going to take out all cylinders, crankshaft and all that.
What I have been debating with friends is whether or not this block is salvageable.
The conclusion I've come to is basically this: (refer to the picture above which shows part of the block broken off - it's part of the lower cylinder wall) Clearly that lower part of the cylinder wall provides directional support for the cylinder even if the damage isn't within the compression area. After rebuild - even if that area didn't develop cracks, I'd be afraid that the cylinder head wouldn't have proper support and would fail.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 27, 2013 15:37:34 GMT -5
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Post by kalarr on Feb 27, 2013 18:03:54 GMT -5
Who thinks it would be a bad idea to re-use this engine block?
Also - I don't really know why any of this happened. I don't do a lot of this kind of stuff, but all the bearings and rings and stuff looked ok to me. I don't know what caused the piston rod to break or the balance shaft chain to break. Like someone suggested, pieces of the broken piston rod probably jammed up and broke the chain. But why did the piston rod decide to fail and, in turn, mess up the block?
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Post by gearheadeh on Feb 27, 2013 18:49:59 GMT -5
Who thinks it would be a bad idea to re-use this engine block? Also - I don't really know why any of this happened. I don't know what caused the piston rod to break or the balance shaft chain to break. Like someone suggested, pieces of the broken piston rod probably jammed up and broke the chain. But why did the piston rod decide to fail and, in turn, mess up the block? The answer to this is in the 4th picture of this thread on the 1st page. It's the one with all the bits and piece's from inside the oil pan laid out on the paper towel. The big end has 1 rod bolt that is broken in the rod parting line. The other rod bolt is intact (but bent) laying loose in the pan along with a pristine looking nut. How did the nut come to be in the oil pan without a mark on it? ? My theory is that the one big end rod bolt nut started coming loose. This would allow for extra clearance and the rod started to over heat. There was a huge amount of heat as evidenced by the change of color of the crank throw. Also the rod bearings actually melted and deformed flowing up beside the con rod away from the crank. Finally the nut came all the way off and the cap of the rod opened up breaking the other bolt. then things happened really fast. the rod came off the crank. got hit by the crank and thrown up against the underside of the cylinder breaking in into pieces. Absolutely amazing that when it hit the balance shaft and broke the drive chain, the balance shaft didn't break. Usually when a Justy throws a rod , it will hit the balance shaft and drive it out the front of the block. This makes a hole big enough for your fist! Because the crank has been over heated so bad I would say it would not be a good candidate to be reground for a new rod . Block might be okay, but would have to be checked for cracks leading into the water jacket. Much better to get a good used engine and drop it in, rebuilding a Justy engine is really only worth while if you are making improvements to it and or plan on using it for another 200,000 miles!
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Post by 88gl on Feb 27, 2013 18:55:32 GMT -5
it started making a loud metallic sounding whining/whirling/screeching/fast high pitched clicking type of sound continued driving the vehicle for a farther 5 minutes as the sound continued and the vehicle was losing power. It sounds like possibly your balance shaft/oil pump chain snapped first...so there goes your oil supply. The bearings started seizing up (metallic screeching), and I'm guessing things got really hot really quickly...fatiguing the connecting rod....then boom. Who knows really, but that makes the most sense to me.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 27, 2013 19:07:23 GMT -5
Who thinks it would be a bad idea to re-use this engine block? Also - I don't really know why any of this happened. I don't know what caused the piston rod to break or the balance shaft chain to break. Like someone suggested, pieces of the broken piston rod probably jammed up and broke the chain. But why did the piston rod decide to fail and, in turn, mess up the block? The answer to this is in the 4th picture of this thread on the 1st page. It's the one with all the bits and piece's from inside the oil pan laid out on the paper towel. The big end has 1 rod bolt that is broken in the rod parting line. The other rod bolt is intact (but bent) laying loose in the pan along with a pristine looking nut. How did the nut come to be in the oil pan without a mark on it? ? My theory is that the one big end rod bolt nut started coming loose. This would allow for extra clearance and the rod started to over heat. There was a huge amount of heat as evidenced by the change of color of the crank throw. Also the rod bearings actually melted and deformed flowing up beside the con rod away from the crank. Finally the nut came all the way off and the cap of the rod opened up breaking the other bolt. then things happened really fast. the rod came off the crank. got hit by the crank and thrown up against the underside of the cylinder breaking in into pieces. Pretty interesting that you noticed this. I thought this in passing the other day as I was taking this all apart. I saw that nut in perfect shape as well and thought the exact same thing about how it may have just fallen off, leading to all of this chain reaction. It sure doesn't make any sense that it would be in perfect shape otherwise.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 27, 2013 19:19:44 GMT -5
Well, I think I am getting close to deciding not to rebuild this Justy. If anyone is interested in the car let me know. I am located in Maine. The car sat unused from 1999 til 2012 (when we bought it and put it back on the road) in an old fellows garage. So it's in pretty decent shape for the most part. I can give anyone pictures of the car if they would like. It's a 1989 and is 4wd.
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Post by gearheadeh on Feb 28, 2013 1:20:12 GMT -5
it started making a loud metallic sounding whining/whirling/screeching/fast high pitched clicking type of sound continued driving the vehicle for a farther 5 minutes as the sound continued and the vehicle was losing power. It sounds like possibly your balance shaft/oil pump chain snapped first...so there goes your oil supply. The bearings started seizing up (metallic screeching), and I'm guessing things got really hot really quickly...fatiguing the connecting rod....then boom. Who knows really, but that makes the most sense to me. I thought this too at first.. ... ... But then why are all of the Main bearings as well as the other 2 Rod bearings in such good shape?
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