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Post by kalarr on Feb 21, 2013 16:57:25 GMT -5
She was driving the car and to the best she can explain it started making a loud metallic sounding whining/whirling/screeching/fast high pitched clicking type of sound while driving at 55mph or so.
She, regrettably, continued driving the vehicle for a farther 5 minutes as the sound continued and the vehicle was losing power. She said that she was giving it more gas to keep up speed and within a few minutes it eventually slowed way down and stalled out.
She was then sitting on the side of the road with a car that would not start. When I came to get her, the first thing I checked was of course the engine oil and it did indeed have plenty of oil.
The next day I attempted to start the Justy and it turns over alright. Though it seems to vibrate and shake the vehicle more than I remember.. On the second attempt it fired up for about 3 seconds and ran real rough and then stalled. I tried a few more times and it only turned over but would not start.
She loves this little 4wd Justy and I'd like to repair it for her. Any ideas what the issue may be?
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Post by blacklight on Feb 21, 2013 18:29:15 GMT -5
First off, tell her NEVER to do this again...
Second, I believe you should check for compression, as she may have blown the piston rings to a hotter place down below. Do the usual checks, does it get fuel, spark, compression, and find the cause if any of these prove faulty.
//Magnus.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 21, 2013 18:35:25 GMT -5
By the way, what might a 4x4 89 two door Justy that is not running be worth to someone on here? It is cosmetically in fair condition. Sat in a garage for over 10 years - was last on the road in 1999 when my girlfriend bought it and I tuned it up for her. It drove great for about a year until just yesterday when it broke down. If anyone is interested, let me know and I can get you more info and pictures. I may try to fix it but if I decide it's out of my league to figure out we'll be looking to sell it.
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Post by 88gl on Feb 21, 2013 18:52:45 GMT -5
It's not worth much. You're better off toying with it and trying to get it running. Or you could part it out and get more than the car by itself.
I've found these engines are practically bulletproof so I'd check the timing belt first...make sure it didn't jump a few teeth. Maybe a bearing seized up on you somewhere...camshaft or crank?
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Post by kalarr on Feb 21, 2013 19:29:09 GMT -5
It may be unconnected but worth noting, I found several tablespoons worth of engine oil in the air filter housing.
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 21, 2013 21:31:41 GMT -5
The noises she described sounds like a shredded timing belt, which is no big deal, the engine is non interference. There should be evidence around the timing cover of shrapnel/rubber.
The oil could be the valve timing being incorrect for such a long amount of time and increasing the crank case pressure, overloading the PCV system.
Where are you located?
Terry
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Post by kalarr on Feb 22, 2013 10:09:27 GMT -5
I am located in rural downeast Maine.
I have opened up the little plastic plug towards the bottom of the plastic timing belt housing and I can feel the timing belt and it feels intact.
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Post by blacklight on Feb 22, 2013 10:24:26 GMT -5
Have you checked the compression? And spark? And fuel?
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Post by kalarr on Feb 22, 2013 10:37:08 GMT -5
I am going to check compression tomorrow morning. Forgive some very basic questions - but how would you check spark and fuel? It obviously does not run. So how do I check to see if the engine is getting fuel and if it is getting a spark to ignite that fuel?
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Post by 88gl on Feb 22, 2013 11:37:08 GMT -5
Spark is easy...just unplug the central plug (coil) wire from the distributor. Put it next to something metal like the fender as someone tries starting the car. There should be a spark shooting to the metal every half second or so.
Fuel is more complicated, but you can check to see if the fuel pump is working. It is located on the drivers side under the car just before the rear tire. There are 4 screws holding a panel. Drop the panel and then try starting the car...you should hear the fuel pump ticking as it pumps. The problem is though it may not tick if the car doesn't start, i'm not sure of this.
I suppose you could disconnect the fuel line going into the carb and have it go into a bucket or cup as you try starting it...that should work too.
I had a lot of issues with my car and I thought it had "died" as well, but I found my timing was off and my carb was clogged. I swapped carbs, adjusted timing belt and off I went.
Another thing to check is oil inside the distributor cap. There is a seal that goes bad and I've heard if enough oil gets in there it can kill the spark. A small amount of oil is OK.
This is the list I followed: 1. Spark? 2. Fuel? 3. Timing? 4. Coil? 5. Plug wires? 6. Plugs and gap? 7. Timing belt? 8. Vacuum leaks? (very important) 9. Fuel filter? 10. Fuel pump? 11. PCV valve? 12. Clogged catalytic converter? 13. Carb clogged? 14. Choke opening? 15. O2 sensor?
I never checked my compression, but it's probably a good idea. I think I was lucky my problem ended up not being too serious.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 22, 2013 11:52:25 GMT -5
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Post by kalarr on Feb 22, 2013 11:57:04 GMT -5
Spark is easy...just unplug the central plug (coil) wire from the distributor. Put it next to something metal like the fender as someone tries starting the car. There should be a spark shooting to the metal every half second or so. Fuel is more complicated, but you can check to see if the fuel pump is working. It is located on the drivers side under the car just before the rear tire. There are 4 screws holding a panel. Drop the panel and then try starting the car...you should hear the fuel pump ticking as it pumps. The problem is though it may not tick if the car doesn't start, i'm not sure of this. I suppose you could disconnect the fuel line going into the carb and have it go into a bucket or cup as you try starting it...that should work too. I had a lot of issues with my car and I thought it had "died" as well, but I found my timing was off and my carb was clogged. I swapped carbs, adjusted timing belt and off I went. Another thing to check is oil inside the distributor cap. There is a seal that goes bad and I've heard if enough oil gets in there it can kill the spark. A small amount of oil is OK. This is the list I followed: 1. Spark? 2. Fuel? 3. Timing? 4. Coil? 5. Plug wires? 6. Plugs and gap? 7. Timing belt? 8. Vacuum leaks? (very important) 9. Fuel filter? 10. Fuel pump? 11. PCV valve? 12. Clogged catalytic converter? 13. Carb clogged? 14. Choke opening? 15. O2 sensor? I never checked my compression, but it's probably a good idea. I think I was lucky my problem ended up not being too serious. I am printing your post. Thanks a lot, that is great information and conveyed very precisely. Much appreciated.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 23, 2013 15:45:57 GMT -5
Just did a compression test. Very poor results.
Cylinder # 1 is 0 psi. Absolutely no movement of the gauge. Cylinder # 2 is 95 psi. Cylinder # 3 is 50 psi.
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 24, 2013 0:12:19 GMT -5
0 PSI makes me think the piston is not moving, ie there is a broken connecting rod. If you look down the spark plug hole can you see the piston?
Terry
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Post by blacklight on Feb 24, 2013 4:04:23 GMT -5
Wow... One would believe that seized valve springs for no.1 cyl would cause that value, but as Terry says, a broken connecting rod seems most likely. :/ Looks like very bad compression on no.3 cyl too. :/ To check for piston movement like Terry says, remove all spark plugs (always put them back to prevent foreign objects from entering the cylinders.) and slowly rotate the engine with a ratchet socket wrench, and look for the piston through the spark plug hole. You should see it once/turn of the crank, if not, you have a problem my friend... :/ //Magnus.
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Post by kalarr on Feb 24, 2013 17:21:32 GMT -5
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Post by kalarr on Feb 24, 2013 17:33:24 GMT -5
As you can see, it has a broken connecting rod, timing chain, and if you look closely you will notice that a small chunk is broken off the block near the bottom of the cylinder wall.
I do not know if the crack in the block is bad enough to make it unusable. This is my first time ever opening up an engine and possibly attempting a rebuild.
I'm going to remove the engine from the vehicle and take this whole thing apart. I may find more damage above.
Any thoughts?
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Post by kalarr on Feb 24, 2013 18:20:09 GMT -5
Or is the chain pictured the "balance shaft chain"?
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Post by Armageddous on Feb 24, 2013 21:21:58 GMT -5
Yes that is the balance shaft chain. I would look for a used motor. I doubt that crank is salvageable even with a .30/over grind, not to mention sourcing a connecting rod, and the simple fact there will be a lot of other damage that you can't see.
You have to consider the engine probably ran out of oil and ran that whole time on the highway without oil pressure, which would basically ruin any rotating component of the motor. The camshaft, front cover/oil pump, balance shaft sprockets, etc.. The chain probably did some good damage whipping around in there.
Replace the engine and take what you can from yours for spare parts. If you can an engine for $1000 or less you'll be laughing, that's probably 1/2 of what your rebuild would cost, not to mention way less down time!
Terry
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Post by blacklight on Feb 25, 2013 5:08:14 GMT -5
Wow... That's a goner on that engine. :/
As Terry says, the oil pressure probably was just enough to make the oil pressure switch (often called idiot switch here on the forums) not light up the oil pressure indicator light, since it does this at something silly like 5 psi or so.
To bad on such a sweet car.
//Magnus.
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