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Post by nipper on Jul 15, 2010 16:35:00 GMT -5
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Jul 15, 2010 17:49:47 GMT -5
Very tidy job! Well done!
Danimal
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Post by nipper on Jul 15, 2010 18:17:11 GMT -5
Thanks. I may have to trim a short hose but I can do that on the fiting.
Anyone with a suggestion on how to run the gauge wire, I am all ears. They are in the cabin, and then I am stuck.
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 15, 2010 23:20:14 GMT -5
It ain't no giagantic orange oil pan but it'll work. Is that a renegade spring clamp I see on the fuel pressure line at the carb!? Very cool. Very clean. Exactly what are you trying to do with the the gauge wiring?
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Post by nipper on Jul 16, 2010 19:10:02 GMT -5
I figured out the gauge wiring. It has been years since I have an older car that wasn't all that sir tight. I routed the wires up through the defroster duct, as the tube was a very sloppy ffrom the factory. I did not notice that fuel clamp before. I havent run the car much as the carb has a huge dead spot in it and it has an open exhaust. i will go over those things when I am ready to put the wheels back on , and before it is made legal.
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Post by monsterjusty on Jul 17, 2010 15:41:44 GMT -5
I'm looking into doing this. Where did you find the oil filter adapter to go where the old one sits? Is it a bad idea to use a huge oilfilter? Or should I just go with a standard size one?
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Post by nipper on Jul 17, 2010 18:24:32 GMT -5
"I'm looking into doing this. Where did you find the oil filter adapter to go where the old one sits? Is it a bad idea to use a huge oil filter? Or should I just go with a standard size one?" Ebay is your freind. I used a standard Perma-cool filter relocation kit. I also got the Oil Thermostat from them. If you live someplace warm I think you can get away without one, but here in NY it can get to zero and i like the car way too much to take a chance. www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page32.html (Block Off Adapter) www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page30.html )remote mount) It is cheaper to get a "tranny" oil cooler as opposed to an "engine" oil cooler. Only God knows why as they do the same thing and the tranny one sees higher pressures. I went with the bigger filter because it holds almost 1 qt of oil all on it's own.I was looking at a smaller one but the goal of this is taoo add as much oil capacity as possible. There is no such thing as too much oil capacity if it is set up properly. Jus get a good name brand oil filter, avoid fram at all costs. Mine is from a 302 Ford, which seems to be the "universal" filter for these kits.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 21, 2010 13:54:50 GMT -5
It is cheaper to get a "tranny" oil cooler as opposed to an "engine" oil cooler. Only God knows why as they do the same thing and the tranny one sees higher pressures. Probably has to do with the pressure drop through the oil cooler. BTW, have you measured the pressure drop across the cooler and lines? Does the bigger filter make up for the increased load?
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Jul 21, 2010 14:25:44 GMT -5
It is cheaper to get a "tranny" oil cooler as opposed to an "engine" oil cooler. Only God knows why as they do the same thing and the tranny one sees higher pressures. Probably has to do with the pressure drop through the oil cooler. BTW, have you measured the pressure drop across the cooler and lines? Does the bigger filter make up for the increased load? I really want to know this too. Stacks (R.I.P.) brought up that point a long time ago about how the additional oil accessories could create a pressure drop or the larger oil filter could create a pressure drop. . . I cannot remember exactly. . . boy I wish I could search for that stuff. I want to know how all of these things play together. I was reading in my Fuji book that the oil pressure relief spring opens at something like 42 PSI. Where many engines will see pressures in excess of 50+ PSI near redline, the EF12 never gets close, which is totally fine, unless we monkey with things so that it never gets above 30PSI in which case it could be a problem. . . I think. Nipper, do you care to offer up your expert insight?
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Post by nipper on Jul 22, 2010 19:26:38 GMT -5
i havent started it yet, i am waiting for a few more parts for the exhaust and gauges to come.
I would imagine it is the other way around. There is a large filter (1971 ford 302) with a large surface area. there are 4 90 degree bends in the adapters. There are 4 more 90's in the line. There are many bends in the cooler. There is also the thermostat. The line and cooler diameter are all the same, as well as the ports in both adapters. Every bend restricts some flow and increases pressure. In the other oil filter post his pressure went up. Now if i was worried about pressure (this is almost impossible to do in a car) i would make gentle curves (I may have one hose I have to shorten) and avoid 90 degree bends as much as possible. I would use a straight cooler, like honda does on its PS systems.
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 23, 2010 21:42:15 GMT -5
The problem I notice with my car, which has a new oil pump as of a couple oil changes ago, (or if you have been following my story, shortly before I sold my car in the first place) is I rarely have oil pressure at first start in the morning. With my current setup (bone stock with a carb engine) I let the engine crank for 8 to 10 revolutions before I let the choke engage and start the engine. If I don't I get a death rattle that shivers me timbers! I can only assume this is from oil draining out of the filter and leaving the engine bone dry on the inside. My concern lies within the size of your oil filter and it's tendency to drain out overnight, leaving a dry start in the morning. At least with the stock filter there isn't much to fill if it does dry up.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 24, 2010 17:40:56 GMT -5
Every bend restricts some flow and increases pressure. Careful here. Only the pump produces pressure. In the other oil filter post his pressure went up. Ah, but we don't know what temperature 'his' thermostat is set at, nor do we know where 'he' is measuring pressure. Look, if your goal is to run your Justy through a wide ambient temperature range without having to switch oil grades, at the expense of gallery pressure @ high ambient temps, then good job. I'd prefer, myself, to simply change to a more viscous oil should the need ever arise and deal with economy losses at startup and low ambient temps. Life's too short for extra plumbing and blown engines. Nice install BTW. Did you consider installing a check valve in the line from pump to filter to prevent empty line starts? Perhaps mounting the filter & lines to their original height, or lower, would prevent the dry starts. How high on the dipstick do you set your level? I digress.
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Post by nipper on Jul 24, 2010 21:06:10 GMT -5
Thermostat is at 180 degrees F by the mfg.
I thought about hanging the filter etc at the same height but that is almost impossible for the filter and add 1qt of oil at the same time.
I want to see what happens when I start it the first time but I have no issue with a check valve if I need it.
This is why I am taking the pressure at the Oil filter. I take the temp at the engine block
Air temp here in NY runs from zero to (lately) 103 degrees F (and I ma on the ocean!).
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Post by nipper on Jul 24, 2010 22:13:36 GMT -5
I am using a purolator PL3001 Pure ONe oil filter. This filter as an anti drainback and anti bypass valve. The drainback valve is located at the bottom of the filter
I am wondering would 2 check valves work better to capture the oil in the external plumbing so it doesnt drain back or get syphoned off.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 27, 2010 15:49:03 GMT -5
This is why I am taking the pressure at the Oil filter. Sorry nipper, I missed that. Why are you taking pressure ahead of the filter/cooler instead of after? Don't you want to observe crank gallery pressure? Perhaps you still use the stock oil pressure switch? I want to know how all of these things play together. I, too, have been wondering about the impact of oil coolers on oil pressure at main gallery. Previously I made a comment that supposed a pressure drop but as I think more about it, some details are worth thinking about. -Imagine oil cooling an engine with a sloppy oil pump and newly fitted crank bearings. Here the gallery pressure is limited by the tolerance within the pump; cooling the oil, or increasing the resistance of the oil circuit, will do nothing to increase pressure and will likely result in less pressure. -Now imagine the opposite, cooling the oil of an engine with a tight pump yet sloppy bearings. Here, we should expect an increase in pressure at gallery over the uncooled engine. So it seems there are scenarios where oil cooling can help or even hinder oil pressure. I won't even comment about adding oil volume to a circuit without improving reserve capacity. Thoughts???
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Post by nipper on Jul 27, 2010 16:56:36 GMT -5
I am still using the stock oil pressure switch. I may rethinlk that line seeing how the stock switch (read i really dont want to get my hand up there) is located after the filter off the main galleys. For now it will stay where it is as it will tell me how long for the system to pump up, if the system is full, and how long for it to drain down.
I most likely will move it after the first start.
Technically the reserve is the 1 qt oil filter and the oil after the Thermostat. Some oil will drain back to the crankase, but waiting a few seconds for it to get in the oil lines should be fine.
The car has 30K on it so I am not really worried about oil pump wear or bearing wear. Also the situation that is described would be the same no matter what was done externally.
With the exception of the filter, all the lines are the same daimeter, including oil filter ports, oil plate ports, oil cooler. The only slight pressure drop is at the T-stat, which (is unavoidable) but has equal siced bushings on all 4 sides.
On adding capacity, coolers are added all the time to transmissions, engine oil, power steering pumps as factory options or dealer added options without increasing oil capacity. The oil pump moves the oil quickly so this is not really an issue. Also 1000's of performance engines have had this done (oil) coolers and filters to increase oil volume circulating in the engine with no modified pan and no ill effects.
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Post by monsterjusty on Jul 27, 2010 18:28:22 GMT -5
This has been done on thousands of diesels with dual oilfilters coolers, the whole works. Amzoil did it on a test truck and ran the same oil and just changed the filters every 5000mi and the oil was in there for I think 100K miles. And that was in a ford in I believe like Iran or somthing. Somewhere real hot. I personally don't think adding anyof this will effect anything. Maybe the t stat. But nothing else Should. As long as the systems plumbed proper it should be the same. Isn't it like putting in a bigger radiator in a car or tranny cooler? And if oil pressure was effected by th oil filter wouldn't every filter the same size? Cu one for our cars is nowhere near the siE of a ford 7.3L filter. (differance of about 2L)
Just my 0.02
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Post by eporter123 on Jul 27, 2010 18:50:06 GMT -5
nipper, it's really easy to get to the stock oil pressure switch from above. That's how I switched mine out to install an oil pressure gauge.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 28, 2010 10:51:27 GMT -5
The only slight pressure drop is at the T-stat, which (is unavoidable) but has equal siced bushings on all 4 sides. There's losses everywhere, every bend, every inch of pipe... but that's not really the whole point. Nor is to tell you that oil coolers will ruin your engine, far from it. The point is to understand what happens when we cool the oil in old worn engines. What factors contribute to success and what others make the cooling function useless? Let's suppose I just redid the crankshaft & bearings in my 200,000 mile Justy. The pump is left untouched. Should I spend near 200$ and install a cooler? Would my oil pressure go up or down? Maybe I should have first asked you what you plan to achieve here. Do you want less pressure drop across the filter? Do you want cooler oil? A vertically mounted filter? Greater ambient temp range with low viscosity oil? But of course these questions beg further. Was the oil temp too hot? Was the old filter too small? Is it all worth it?
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Post by nipper on Jul 28, 2010 17:25:24 GMT -5
The oil filter is always too small in a justy, as well as capacity (sheesh the other cooler mod didnt get drilled like this ) Small quantity of oil always over works in an automotive engine. And again it is a 1989 with ONLY 30,000 original miles on the car. the engine is tight. I just ordered the thread adapter for the oil pressure port..
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