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Post by eporter123 on Dec 16, 2007 20:16:30 GMT -5
SO, I put 175/70 R13s on my 1990 4wd justy GL.
They rub the trailing arms.
What?
Everything I've read here and other places online says it should work ok. I chipped off the gloppy undercoating on the trailing arm, but as it sits right now, there's about 5-6mm of clearance between the trailing arm and tire when the car is flat and level.
Going around a continuous curve at speed (like a highway on/off ramp) the tires rub the trailing arm.
Going over a whoop-de-whoo type of bump causes the car to compress and rub the trailing arms very briefly as well.
Obviously smaller tires are the answer. However, these are a sweet set of Pirello 3000 cinturatos (something like that) that I got a great deal on. I'd really like to keep them.
Will installing those coil spring "helpers" keep the car from compressing and rubbing?
The strange thing is that the clearance between tire and trailing arm is 1-2mm less on the passenger side. Was this car in a wreck? I seem to think the tires that were on there before were much more worn on the pass. rear.
I can buy new tires, but if a suspension upgrade/replace/whatever will help, I'd rather spend the $$ on that, as it's all original back there.
Is it a bushing/swaybar type of issue?
Not sure if the rims are correct to the car either. There's a 1989 justy gl in the scrapyard with silver rims that look different than mine.
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 16, 2007 20:43:25 GMT -5
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 16, 2007 21:14:32 GMT -5
Okay ... so I have been running the same set of four tires,175 /70 /13 like you. I got them about a year ago and they were fairly new.I took them off a parts car I bought and drove home. There was no rubbing at all with these tires on this car which was very rustly but fairly low kms.As soon as I switched them to my high mile daily driver I noticed they would rub in all the same situations as you mentioned. Yes I was surprised to see how little clearance there is between the rear trailing arm and the inside of the tire. Any ways these tires rub on this justy I have and not the one they came on because of one thing.Soft,tired old rear springs!. And I also detirmened that it wasn't the side wall which was rubbing but the tread face against the front plastic mud deflector.Rubber on plastic is not such a horrible thing... my tires don't rub as much and you can't see any damage on the tire face just rubbed of most of the plastic mudflap that was in the way.The mud flap is still there,maybe if you took yours right off the noise would go away!.
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 17, 2007 1:29:24 GMT -5
Stacks,
I'll try your method tomorrow. The tire to trailing arm clearance is slightly off side to side, so maybe something's off.
Gearhead,
I wish I was rubbing on the actual tire tread. I took the tires off today and the only wear I could really see was a polished spot on both trailing arms. I could care less about trim and mudflaps, but I think the trailing arm will win against a tire!
SO, did you put new springs in your rear, or.......
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 17, 2007 7:06:26 GMT -5
E porter sorry to hear your trailing arms do rub.Those trailing arms are extremely light weight just like the rest of the car..that obviously is why I like these cars so much. Maybe it was bent by someone in the past when they slide up against a curb.Also maybe your rims are bent,I once tried to use a rim from a wrecker that looked fine till I put it on the car,it was so bent it was locked up against the front caliper!.Your rims are the actual black stock justy rims right?.AS far as my car goes it is like the everedy bunny.....I continue to beat the cr@p out of it and it just takes it,wait till you see the picks of this weekends attemp to kill the poor thing!. I have a nice one to replace this one that I will get running some day.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 17, 2007 12:41:25 GMT -5
Eporter, without being right there next to your car and without knowing exactly which Pirelli tire you have, it is difficult to diagnose what is happening. The possibilities are: - The springs are weakened from age.
- The suspension is misaligned or the chassis out of square
- The tires you have selected are wider than your average 175mm tire*
*A bit more about tire width; in theory a 175mm tire should be 175mm wide but in reality there is variance from brand to brand just like with shoes (I wear a larger size Chuck Taylor than I do Caterpillar boot). Also, the tread width and the section width are different from tire to tire (section width is the width of the sidewall not the actual tread) and lastly the width of the wheel affects the width of the tire greatly. Check out these differences- Yokohama Avid Touring__ 175/70R13 ~ 6.7" section width on a 5" rim
- Kumho Touring A/S 795__ 175/70R13 ~ 6.8" section width on a 5" rim
- Pirelli P400 Touring ______175/70R13 ~ 7.0" section width on a 5" rim
All of this information is verifiable and available at www.tirerack.com
We can see that Pirelli makes some of its tires a little bit wider than the competition. The first thing you should do is, have your suspension aligned professionally. If you still experience rubbing, do not get rid of your nice new tires. Simply get some wheel spacers and you'll be A-OK The wheels at the rear of the Justy are mounted lug-centric not hub-centric (that means there is no lip the the wheel hangs on in the center bore) so any small wheel spacer up to 3/8" thick is perfectly acceptable. You could also try replacing your springs and Chapman struts but that is a much more expensive experiment that is not guaranteed to fix this problem. You can find wheel spacers cheaply enough on eBay or you can source them through a good local wheel & tire shop. Also, a simple cry for help on the Portland craigslist portland.craigslist.org/ will probably get you response from some Honda enthusiasts that want to sell some spacers or at least point you in the direction they got theirs.
This is all good advice :)follow it!
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 19, 2007 18:10:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the ideas Seattlejusty. The Pirelli tire is the P3000 Cinturato, as I previously wrote.
Stacks; I haven't had a chance to measure the toe of the rear wheels or have the car aligned. I'm sure it could use it though.
I did order some new Subaru springs for the rear today. I plan on loading this car up, and any 17 year old suspension is bound to be tired.
Yes, I may buy a 1/4" spacer. Don't want to go too far out on those little studs, though.
Yeah, maybe struts someday after I've driven this car enough to see if it's still worth dumping more $$ into it.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 20, 2007 2:56:20 GMT -5
OK, I looked up your tire at the Pirelli site and sure enough, they are 7.1" the widest section width I have seen for a 175/70R13 yet. No wonder the sidewalls are rubbing your trailing arms. I think you're pretty safe to go beyond a 1/4" spacer but it might be all you need as long as you religiously check your tire-pressure and keep them pumped up. Did you order your springs from the dealer? And how much are they charging you?
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Post by fraser9764 on Dec 20, 2007 5:32:15 GMT -5
i run 5mm spacers on the rear with no problems, i tried 10mm but i could only get a couple of turns on the wheel nuts. 1/4 inch is about 6.3mm??? should be perfect, i wouldnt go much bigger.
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 20, 2007 12:35:23 GMT -5
Seattlejusty, I COULD NOT find the part of the tirerack site where they give hard #s on tires. Where is it? I seriously have no idea. As to the springs, they're 45.30 each from www.1stsubaruparts.com/They're not at my door yet, but the price is a tiny bit cheaper than subarugenuineparts.com By the way, if you google subaru parts you end up with all these sites that look almost identical. ALSO, the parts costs all vary by small percentages. I spoke with John on the phone before placing my order, as I was wary of all these similar web sites. He was very helpful, and looked up all the parts from my order to give me an approx. shipping date. I also ordered some heater & radiator hoses, 2 motor mounts, thermostat, and the top and bottom rubber isolators for the coil springs. Those were only a couple bucks each, so why not? I got the last 2 sets in the country! Hope that helps.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 20, 2007 13:48:51 GMT -5
Seattlejusty, I COULD NOT find the part of the tirerack site where they give hard #s on tires. Where is it? I seriously have no idea. As to the springs, they're 45.30 each from www.1stsubaruparts.com/They're not at my door yet, but the price is a tiny bit cheaper than subarugenuineparts.com By the way, if you google subaru parts you end up with all these sites that look almost identical. ALSO, the parts costs all vary by small percentages. I spoke with John on the phone before placing my order, as I was wary of all these similar web sites. He was very helpful, and looked up all the parts from my order to give me an approx. shipping date. I also ordered some heater & radiator hoses, 2 motor mounts, thermostat, and the top and bottom rubber isolators for the coil springs. Those were only a couple bucks each, so why not? I got the last 2 sets in the country! Hope that helps. Ha! Now we're even. The last post, you corrected me as I clearly didn't pay attention to you (you did say exactly which tire you were using) Thanks for the ideas Seattlejusty. The Pirelli tire is the P3000 Cinturato, as I previously wrote. Stacks; I haven't had a chance to measure the toe of the rear wheels or have the car aligned. I'm sure it could use it though. I did order some new Subaru springs for the rear today. I plan on loading this car up, and any 17 year old suspension is bound to be tired. Yes, I may buy a 1/4" spacer. Don't want to go too far out on those little studs, though. Yeah, maybe struts someday after I've driven this car enough to see if it's still worth dumping more $$ into it. And now we traded places because I did say exactly where I found the info... OK, I looked up your tire at the Pirelli site and sure enough, they are 7.1" the widest section width I have seen for a 175/70R13 yet. No wonder the sidewalls are rubbing your trailing arms. I think you're pretty safe to go beyond a 1/4" spacer but it might be all you need as long as you religiously check your tire-pressure and keep them pumped up. Did you order your springs from the dealer? And how much are they charging you? I do use the tirerack.com for a lot of great info but sometimes you have to go right to the manufacturer. I tried to include the link in my last post but it is too long. You will have to just meander through the maze like I did. www.us.pirelli.com/web/catalog/car-suv-van/catalogo.page?categoria=/catalog/car-suv-van/car/all-season&vehicleType=
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 20, 2007 18:12:26 GMT -5
Here's another quote:
"I COULD NOT find the part of the tirerack site where they give hard #s on tires. Where is it?"
I seriously spent way too much time fumbling through the TireRack website trying to find some hard data. Where that tire rack tire size link is was all I was wondering. I should've just gone to the manufacturer's site.
I still have no idea where you got all those tire width #s from!
I am ordering 1/4" spacers tomorrow, as it's apparent from your data that my tires are too wide.
Perhaps we can construct the ultimate Subaru Justy tire fitment matrix!
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 20, 2007 21:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 20, 2007 23:59:18 GMT -5
Huh? That really is simple.
I was looking for a "technical" section of tirerack.
Guess all my answers were hiding in plain sight!
BTW, I ordered the Mr Gasket 2375 1/4" 4x100 wheel spacers today at Autozone. I think it's the easiest found setup. $25 though.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 21, 2007 4:36:58 GMT -5
Yeah, tirerack.com is great and easy to use but the trouble is if you use only them, you can miss out on a lot of tires and a lot of sizes too. I applaud you for finding your 3000's. Sure as hell wasn't the tirerack that got you those! Good luck with the spacers BTW. I would still get a 4-wheel alignment professionally done though. $75 for an alignment is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the tires especially since the tires' lifespan and effectiveness is dependent on alignment. Let us know how it turns out.
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Post by ronan on Dec 21, 2007 9:25:38 GMT -5
Seattlejusty, just wondering? Is your Justy a Gen1 or Gen2? Because I was having severe alignment problems sometime back and was told that on the rear of my Gen1 they could only do the toe or camber only, but not both. They offerred a weld-in set-up like they install on racecars for adjusting both, but at $350 a side, I said "Nah/baby/Nah" just get it close to the front and they did.
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Post by eporter123 on Dec 21, 2007 11:56:43 GMT -5
$75 for an alignment is pretty close to the $100 cash I paid for all four 90% tread, slightly used tires! Viva la Craigslist!
Still cost $60 more to have them mounted and balanced though.
Amazing the deals you can find if you just search for "tire 13" on Craigslist.
I have a 1983 Land Cruiser that I regularly 4-wheel and I get an alignment every year. I've put 60000 miles on this one set of tires on it though, and they all wear evenly.
Lots of idiots 'wheel their trucks, do nothing, and then one tire is completely bald or something.
Nothing like burning through a $150-200 tire!
An alignment is in the works down the road if the Justy behaves itself. No breaking parts or no alignment!
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Post by henri on Dec 22, 2007 1:57:45 GMT -5
walmart has the cheapest prices in (any) town for mounting and balancing
worth at least dropping by to see what they will charge (i'm pretty sure i paid around $9/wheel for them to mount studded tires on rims i found off of craigslist)
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 22, 2007 4:48:48 GMT -5
WalMart is bad for America and bad for you, me & everyone else. I don't care that they sell whatever for $9. I would rather go hungry than eat McDonald's and I would rather walk than have my tires balanced by WalMart.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 22, 2007 13:30:21 GMT -5
Good man Stacks. Fight the good fight. It is impossible for us to 'fight-the-man" every time all the time but we sure can choose our battles. I have my absolutes: no Walmart, no McDonalds and then I have my extra credit: when there's extra money in my pocket I'll buy Naturally Nested eggs and free range chicken but when money is tight I buy brand-X. As long as I know that I am diverting some or most of my money away from things I know and feel to be bad for America then I am doing as much as I can. Bravo, Stacks!
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