|
Post by coondog on Apr 10, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -5
Hey, so I've been bouncing around this idea of doing a nice upgrade to improve oil performance of these engines. I am thinking about buying one of those remote oil filter kits that use two big ford oil filters, and running an oil cooler as well. Like a big transmission cooler with like seven chambers. And adding an oil temp gauge and oil pressure gauge where the oil returns to the motor.
my boss and I were thinking that two filters might decrease oil pressure.
anyone think this would be a good idea to increase capacity by at least a quart, and significantly reduce oil temps on the highway?!?
any input appreciated. Thanks, Connor.
|
|
|
Post by madmatt on Apr 10, 2016 17:42:28 GMT -5
Connor, I encourage you to read around here more on the issue of oiling this stupid engine... It's been discussed to death. IMHO. It's not an oil temp problem, and it's not an oil capacity problem, it's volume and where oil goes. To much goes to the head, not enough goes to the crank... I'm not an engineer! But the basics are that pumps create flow, resistance makes pressure and heat. When there's no resistance, and no overheating in a ICE, temps ain't a problem... If you don't have pressure then you either have too much clearance or you likely don't have flow... I've built motors that have theoretical resistance but no fawking pressure... so? Flow... the pump just ain't up to the task... You can cool your oil, sure, but if it's not hot to begin with? why bother? We's need a bigger pump... all the bronze bushings and sheet ain't gonna fix the problem. A nice tight engine run at 3000 rpm max and loved will last, anything more, and you're asking for trouble. the only solution is more flow. More filters is not going to solve it. once again, my humble opinion.
|
|
|
Post by coondog on Apr 11, 2016 8:20:20 GMT -5
I respect your answer Matt. I am grateful for you putting all that info out there for me.
I do not have any current problems with oiling, and such, but I am trying to get my car set up to do some big highway drives every once in a while. I do a lot of trips to the mountains, and that means going 200~ miles to get there. I have driven my justy up there a lot of times in the last year, and had no issues, so I was tossing around these ideas to keep it that way. I usually do two quarts of 20w-50, and 1 quart or 10-30 when I do oil changes, so I figures some heavier oil might be good for the car seeing that I keep it at 3200'ish RPMs on the highway for like 180 miles straight.
I have thought about getting new everything for the oil pump, and taking care of that before I ever see the light flicker, but seems like its been good for now..
Thanks, Connor.
|
|
|
Post by madmatt on Apr 11, 2016 15:43:11 GMT -5
I want to add... I don't think added sump or oil capacity is a bad thing! With only 3 l of oil... it gets dirty and burned quick. My concern is that adding stress to the pump by forcing oil through another filter may be detrimental to the oiling further down the line. look at Terry's thread about building a bigger sump. or perhaps an open oil cooler. i finally have an oil temp gauge, but the car is yet to be run. it would be good to hear from people what sort of oil temps are running, but I've yet to see "data". so some of my babble is conjecture
|
|
|
Post by jasin on Apr 12, 2016 3:25:02 GMT -5
i've got oil temp gauge and the temperature often achieve 120*C wich i think is quite a lot that is why i'm about to use an oil cooler. I will mount a special oil filter spacer with oil thermostat soon I will see if it improves anything, but first I have to put engine back into the car
|
|
|
Post by nipper on Apr 15, 2016 23:56:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by nipper on Apr 15, 2016 23:57:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by chooch on Apr 18, 2016 18:00:26 GMT -5
Is there a possibility to play about with oil restrictors on these cars? If so restricting the oil to the heads could put more oil to the bottom end?
Ewan
|
|
|
Post by jasin on Apr 20, 2016 2:26:42 GMT -5
nipper, really nice job i don't want to criticize, but recently I talked with a guy who is deep into drag racing and he told me that in such kind of instalations (ie oil collers) you need to use special hoses at least 120*C temperature ressistant for pressure at least 5 bar. The problem is that such hoses are reinforced with PTFE hose inside and they are quite stiff so it is unacceptable to use such kind of clamp (I'm not sure it is a right word in English). You need to use hoses with fittings with thread, so the whole hose has to be made by speciallists. He told me that using clamps in that kind of solutions are the most frequent cause of fire in cars in drag racing. Better think about it.
|
|
|
Post by madmatt on Apr 20, 2016 9:36:47 GMT -5
jasin, for sure in drag racing a big motor, you'd want swagged hydraulic fittings... but nippers set up has been going for nearly a decade (i think it was nearly that long ago i remember his install). with the low pressure of the stock pump, proper oil rated hose (not coolant line) and a gear clamp will be fine. remember we never see 50lbs of pressure. most big block cars are going to be turning at least 10psi for every 1000 rpm. so that's like at least 70 psi. big difference where a tiny leak can get big fast! chooch, i considered the oil restriction for the head in my latest build (mentioned it in the thread). probably a great idea to play with on street motors. progressive blockage. but to do it well you need to spend time to judge results and make sure in the end you dont burn out the cam! i think it's a great starting point though. would love to see someone give it a try. instead i just opted for going with a massive pump!
|
|
|
Post by jasin on Apr 21, 2016 3:20:49 GMT -5
maybe you are right, Im just passing the things ive heard
|
|
|
Post by coondog on Apr 27, 2016 22:06:40 GMT -5
Sorry, I've been slammed at work and missed a lot of this discussion until now.
Lots of good info added so far, thanks guys.
One way to reduce the volume of oil getting sent to the heads is by filling the oil primaries with JB weld, then drilling them out with a smaller dimension to reduce the volume. I guess if you would like 25% less oil going to the head, you could mic the passages, and use a proportion to come up with the appropriate drill size. My biggest fear would be deciding if the JB weld would hold up to the pressure with the heat over time? BC if the JB weld breaks free and passes through the top end, it can ruin some shyt. Ive used JB weld to accomplish some pretty off-the-wall modifications on various projects before. Like when I'm porting two stroke crankcases, I fill all the dead area in the case to increase the primary compression.
Recently, my thermostat stuck shut and almost killed my little car! I was 200 miles from home with two passengers going through the mountains. I saw my temp gauge stay way above the halfway mark for most of the drive.
I dont think a thermostat is necessary when running the cooler and remote filter option, because if the oil gets a leg up on cooling by circulating from the initial start, it will take a good bit longer to even get hot. Just an assumption though...
I built a racing transmission for a guy recently, and when they were doing the R&R part I was looking under the car and noticed a dual oil cooler setup. Where the oil fed from the filter housing, then to one cooler on the driver side, and fed out over to the passenger side, and finally back into the block. Looked like it would be a lot more capacity. He has the AN style fittings and high pressure hoses as described by a previous poster, and I liked the quality of his setup.
After much thought and reading, I feel it would be most appropriate to do a very similar setup to the guy who uploaded his pictures, but with a different cooler. I would want mine to be in front of the radiator and as close to the size of the stock A/C condenser as possible to take full advantage of the space, with intentions to make the cooler upgrade as useful as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Armageddous on Apr 28, 2016 0:01:19 GMT -5
I would not use JB weld. It's just an epoxy and will break down in that environment.
The head has lots of oil going up to it but is restricted by the narrow passage entering the head.
Terry
|
|
|
Post by nipper on Apr 30, 2016 22:23:49 GMT -5
It's only been 5 years I have never had a problem, But I change oil every 3000 miles (or once a year) and dont use the car when the roads are salted. I think once in winter on a very cold day it saw 50PSI, usually max is 40 PSI and 18 PSI at idle on a very hot summer day. Trust me the system is capable of handling much higher pressures, but it is just a Justy, and I wanted to avoid oiling issues. I have taken the car on hot summer drives and never had the oil temp go over 190 F. Subaru asked a lot of so little oil when new. I've added almost 2 qts to the capacity. But then again my Justy has just gone out of warrenty (38000 miles). I am trying to find lower value pressure gauge with no luck. 0-100 PSI is a waste.
|
|
|
Post by coondog on May 1, 2016 13:55:03 GMT -5
Did you buy your kit as a package or piece it together. Did you make the bracket yo mount your oil cooler and filter on or did it all come like that ?
|
|
|
Post by nipper on May 1, 2016 19:09:48 GMT -5
The standard relocation kit came with the adapter plate and filter mount. I added a oil cooler and a oil thermostat. Oil only flows through the cooler when the oil goes over 180 degrees F. The plate its all mounted tois the regular Justy filler plate next to the radiator. The only fabricating was making a hole for the oil hoses and a few holes in the plate. I am keeping the car as original as possible so I am not drilling new holes, just using holes that already exist. In hindsight I would make the hole for the oil lines bigger, but after 5 years its holding up fine.
The cooler is just mounted with the usual plastic mounts through the radiator fins. Its a very small cooler. I wanted it to look like it belonged there.
|
|
|
Post by coondog on May 2, 2016 10:03:36 GMT -5
It does look like a well put together system.
I have to break down and do the front cover gasket here in the next few weeks. It is leaking, and I dont want my car to leak anymore. Shopkey says its like 7hr job, but I cant see it taking that long. I might do the oil pump and bushing, while im in there. I never had my oil light flicker, but I think that I should do it since I am all the way in there, and its pretty easy to change the bushing. According to shopkey, I have to take the waterpump impeller off to get the cover off, so I am going to dig through some old threads on here to get some good solid info before I do the job. That way its a smooth repair.
|
|
|
Post by nipper on May 2, 2016 12:51:42 GMT -5
I would put a cheap mechanical oil pressure gauge on first and see what shape the oiling system is in to start
|
|
|
Post by dez on May 10, 2016 15:46:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by thatguy420 on Dec 3, 2016 14:17:52 GMT -5
Would it replace the oil pump or just act like a booster?
|
|