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Post by Armageddous on Jul 4, 2010 16:42:13 GMT -5
Ah. I call those scrapers, then. One of those is probably beyond my level of engineering.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 6, 2010 13:51:03 GMT -5
Once upon a time I had posted pictures of new oil pump versus old one. It was pretty clear that the condition of the oil was the problem. But, what then, is the problem? I mean, aside from dirty oil what condition are you trying to avoid?
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 6, 2010 19:16:26 GMT -5
Well, the major thing I remember is the deep scoring and deformed housing. The scoring was from big chunks of who-knows-what that made it past the pickup screen. I always assumed these were fragments of the chainguide. The deformation of the housing is more than likely from excessive heat due to lack of lubrication, either ineffective oil or just not enough.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 7, 2010 10:30:26 GMT -5
deformation of the housing Yeah, I'm still confused... You're trying to protect the front cover because they're hard to find and/or expensive?
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 8, 2010 23:55:34 GMT -5
They're difficult to find good used and as far as I know you cannot buy them new. The only option is to take them to a machine shop and get them to install brass sleeves with the new oil pump. Add that cost on with new rods, new crank and the rest of the work involved in repairing a Justy engine that spun a bearing and you start to see why there's not many good engines out there.
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Post by nipper on Jul 9, 2010 19:55:52 GMT -5
"But, what then, is the problem? I mean, aside from dirty oil what condition are you trying to avoid?["
The problem is not so much dirty oil. The problem is too little oil and too long a change interval. Oil has three jobs, lubricate, hold dirt in suspension, and to cool. The amount of oil in a justy is woefully too little for the change interval and to disipate heat. Anything one can do to increase oil volume is always a good thing on any engine, but even more so on an engine with a small oil capacity.
Oil gets too hot, it starts to break down and the additives burn off. The over heating may not show up in the pan, but it would show up anywhere the oil is under load, be it shear or heat.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Jul 10, 2010 6:39:36 GMT -5
"But, what then, is the problem? I mean, aside from dirty oil what condition are you trying to avoid?[" The problem is not so much dirty oil. The problem is too little oil and too long a change interval. Oil has three jobs, lubricate, hold dirt in suspension, and to cool. The amount of oil in a justy is woefully too little for the change interval and to disipate heat. Anything one can do to increase oil volume is always a good thing on any engine, but even more so on an engine with a small oil capacity. Oil gets too hot, it starts to break down and the additives burn off. The over heating may not show up in the pan, but it would show up anywhere the oil is under load, be it shear or heat. Boom, nailed it. Well put Nipper!
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Post by nipper on Jul 10, 2010 19:34:51 GMT -5
Thats why the only molestation i am doing to mine is to add almost 2 qts capacity. I will say it does look odd having a huge oil filter next to the tiny engine
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 11, 2010 0:06:04 GMT -5
Sometime soon I will be attempting to install this atrocity into my car. I will takes lots of pictures whether it fits or not. =P
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 12, 2010 10:33:01 GMT -5
The problem is too little oil and too long a change interval. Surely, then, you've measured the level at high rpm to determine this? But starvation was not an issue before. Still confused... Problem #2 is easy to remedy. Where are the interval figures from? My owner's manual states specs for the first change only...
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Post by nipper on Jul 12, 2010 21:02:17 GMT -5
In the service and warrenty book it says every 7500 miles which is insane. Even for break in that is completly nuts for such a small oil capacity. "Surely, then, you've measured the level at high rpm to determine this? But starvation was not an issue before" I did not mention starvation so I do not know who that is addressed too. BTW I am an automotive Engineer so I look at this from an engineering point of view
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 13, 2010 21:30:09 GMT -5
Let's just call it redundant and be done with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 17:21:42 GMT -5
In the service and warrenty book it says every 7500 miles which is insane. Even for break in that is completly nuts for such a small oil capacity. Wow, I never looked - just change it every 2500-3000 and check it regularly when the car is level and has sat for a bit. I have changed my LS-3 V8's oil twice now in ~5k miles and am about to do it again and that beast uses around 9qts of Mobil1. Yoinks. I personally feel that having more oil volume would be a great thing in the Justy.
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Post by justyjuggler on Jul 14, 2010 18:16:33 GMT -5
Agreed, so long as we're talking sump volume.
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Post by Armageddous on Aug 4, 2010 19:04:28 GMT -5
Update. Pan installed and working beautifully. All together the engine took about 4.5L of oil. The pickup tube was clogged almost completely solid with bits of silicone, debris and what looked to be a piece of a piston skirt or something. The other thing I noticed was the gasket from the pickup tube to the oil pump housing was in really rough shape, it wasn't even round anymore. Replaced it of course. A startling revelation, I don't have to crank my engine over relentlessly to obtain oil pressure in the morning! Also I do not lose oil pressure when my idle drops below 750 like I used to. WOW. My adapter to allow for a custom down pipe. The pan installed as it is now. My one over sight.. The engine is tilted and it completely negates my drain plug, it's sort of pointing in the air.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2010 21:50:06 GMT -5
Looks good. It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but it doesn't seem to hang down too far. How much clearance is there from the exhaust? I am looking forward to hearing how it works. I have an extra dented oil pan that I might need to modify if you like the results. I am visualizing a bolt-on skid plate with a poly bushing mount to the front sway bar bracket. Kudos for experimenting on your machine. You and Nipper may find a couple elegant yet straightforward solutions to the oil problem.
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Post by Armageddous on Aug 4, 2010 23:59:37 GMT -5
The exhaust is about 1/8" away from the pan where it makes that 60deg bend, however its mounted solid. The pan to ground clearance is totally acceptable. Even on my little 1st gen with the 12" wheels! I will take a picture with a good camera next time I get a chance.
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Post by Armageddous on Aug 5, 2010 20:49:08 GMT -5
More pics.
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Post by micco on Aug 12, 2010 3:24:31 GMT -5
P.S. did that 3.1 V6 come stock with a 4 litre sump? Yes? Well did it come stock with two turbos and 700HP? I'm just sayin' It come stock with two turbos and ~300hp.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Aug 12, 2010 11:07:21 GMT -5
P.S. did that 3.1 V6 come stock with a 4 litre sump? Yes? Well did it come stock with two turbos and 700HP? I'm just sayin' It come stock with two turbos and ~300hp. You have an engine that came with 300HP and now makes 700HP? Bro, that's 133% more than stock. Let me repeat, not 33% more, 133% more. As in, more than double the horsepower, double the heat. A stock 1.6 liter Alfa Romeo hemi has a capacity of 6.35 quarts. Like I said, 4 quarts is usally enough for most engines, but if you have energy and money to spend on multiple turbos and intercoolers & the like, wouldn't you want to increase your oil capacity too? Oil, good, clean oil is the most important thing you will ever put into your engine.
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