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Post by indkid87 on Feb 7, 2010 18:05:15 GMT -5
First of all redroo the "parking brake" is NOT for emergencies it is for parking. do you really think locking up the rear wheels is a good idea in an emergency situation?
And second the stock 4wd does not disangage anywhere near fast enough to be used as nipper suggested.
Third you don't really need the hand brake for rallying when other techniques can be used. You need to get out there and learn how to drive without it. In other words before you go modifying anything learn how to drive the car as it is.
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Post by zabolxp on Feb 7, 2010 19:03:37 GMT -5
I don't need handbrake on gravel and snow, but on the slow and tight tarmac special stages you need handbrake for 180° hairpins if you don't want to lose time. Of course i can switch between FWD/4WD, but this is still losing time. I know driving techniques. Until now i was started on Audi 80 B2 quattro in rally version, but now i'm thinking about something smaller and cheaper.
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Post by indkid87 on Feb 7, 2010 19:39:19 GMT -5
You shouldn't be using the 4wd on dry tarmac anyways that is also a good way to break things. So I would suggest keeping it in 2wd on the tarmac then you can feel free to use the handbreak without fear of destroying your hubs.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Feb 7, 2010 22:24:08 GMT -5
First of all redroo the "parking brake" is NOT for emergencies it is for parking. do you really think locking up the rear wheels is a good idea in an emergency situation? Funny, if your emergency was hydraulic brakes failure would you just let the car stop on it's own? You know you don't have to pull the handle till the wheels lock up. I would use it in an emergency, silly me. -edit- forgot to add, I would use it in association with downshift compression braking. -no offense intended -RRJ
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Post by RedRooJusty on Feb 7, 2010 22:28:58 GMT -5
You shouldn't be using the 4wd on dry tarmac anyways that is also a good way to break things. So I would suggest keeping it in 2wd on the tarmac then you can feel free to use the handbreak without fear of destroying your hubs. **xabolxp** I second **indkid87** on this, He is right. -RRJ
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Post by onsk8 on Feb 7, 2010 22:35:25 GMT -5
Just a thought, if you convert the handbrake to one rear wheel then that wheel will lock up. The other rear wheel keeps spinning and there shouldnt be any lock up of the front wheels. Anyone else think this will work?
However, it might not generate enough forwards motion to get enough spin. I could also see it heating up and or possibly destroying the differential with alot of use.
The only advantage to pulling the handbrake in an emergency is to save the engine. Well in my honest opinion.
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Post by onsk8 on Feb 7, 2010 22:39:11 GMT -5
In a rally i wouldn't be too concerned with wearing hubs out because of asphalt handbrake turns. I personally haven't used the hand brake alot on asphalt. Has anyone tried to figure out a way to do hairpins in a justy as is?
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Post by onsk8 on Feb 7, 2010 22:42:12 GMT -5
It will be great to create mod like in WRC cars when you pull handbrake, rear diff is disconnected. Justy is not complicated car so i think it is not something impossible. Just a note. WRC cars don't disconnect the rear differential when they pull the handbrake, they only unlock the center differential completly to allow different wheel speeds between the front and rear tires. ps sorry for three posts im sick and cant think in a straight line.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Feb 8, 2010 11:38:56 GMT -5
Another note: rally is not race and driving like an ass on dirt roads around your home town is not rally. If we had an admin that gave two craps about this forum I would request a new board for 'Justy Abuse'.
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Post by imaginarius on Feb 9, 2010 13:13:30 GMT -5
What's pretty farcleed up is I know you are talking about me, but you are also talking about a lot of people on this forum.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Feb 9, 2010 14:23:05 GMT -5
What's pretty farcleed up is I know you are talking about me, but you are also talking about a lot of people on this forum. Am I? Am I singling you out or is that really just your guilty concience? Orrrrrrrr is it farcleed up that I would say something like that or is it farcleed up that people would abuse their Justys this way?
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Post by imaginarius on Feb 9, 2010 16:35:45 GMT -5
Why?
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Feb 9, 2010 20:17:41 GMT -5
Why what? My point is that I wasn't calling you out and I wasn't talking about you (specifically) and the fact that you think I was aiming my comments at you personally says something about your feelings about yourself as a Justy owner. Am I excluding you from my thoughts? No! However I was not picking on you per se. I think Indikid pointed it out best already. It is a brake for parking. The majority of this thread has discussed various ways of breaking, abusing and altering a Justy for the sake of cheap thrills. You are all very free to do these things and say these things (and thanks to me free to use word phrases like "farcleed up" without censorship) and I am also free to express myself without amercement. That's all.
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Post by Quidam on Feb 9, 2010 21:05:36 GMT -5
Hey, Think I need to read the rest of the thread. On a gravel road I put the car in reverse and take off. Hit the HAND:) brake and turn the wheel, left in my case. Release brake and turn the wheel right, straighten out the wheel and drive on. After putting it in a foreward gear, of course. The Justy has a two into one cable which could be easily split, no? Doug
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Feb 10, 2010 0:13:05 GMT -5
Hey, On a gravel road I put the car in reverse and take off. Hit the HAND:) brake and turn the wheel, left in my case. Release brake and turn the wheel right, straighten out the wheel and drive on. After putting it in a foreward gear, of course. Thank you for that loooong description. It's called a J-turn or if you require less brevity you can call it a Jim-Rockford-turn as demonstrated skillfully by this chap. . .
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Post by Quidam on Feb 11, 2010 23:31:41 GMT -5
So...I use the hand brake for that.
I use the emergency brake when my hydraulic lines burst.
when I park on a hill I use the parking brake...
No wait, what was the question?
Doug
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Feb 12, 2010 9:46:57 GMT -5
So...I use the hand brake for that. I use the emergency brake when my hydraulic lines burst. when I park on a hill I use the parking brake... It never fails to amaze me how many people will ask why I am using the 'emergency' brake when stopped facing uphill in traffic, and further how many cannot comprehend that it is easier to use the 'hand' brake than it is to jump from the pedal brake to the throttle and release the clutch quickly. I don't care how skilled one may be at the procedure; it is easier on the car to use the hand brake. Danimal
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Post by madmatt on Feb 12, 2010 11:03:55 GMT -5
Danimal,
Thank-you! Very few people in North-America seem to do this. I spent some time working in the UK as a student, and was told (rightly or wrongly) by my my boss that it was law there to engage the handbrake when stopped at an intersection (such as waiting for a light). This was to maintain control of the vehicle. The procedure seems smart, and I have continued to use it throughout my life. It does several things: keeps the brake functioning since it is not sitting idle, lets you know it is still operational, and even if you can heel-toe off the brake on an uphill it makes pulling away on a steep much easier on the clutch.
Furthermore, in most jurisdictions where I have been that require frequent vehicle inspections, the emergency brake must be able to bring the car to stop.
I wonder if the typically poorly designed foot operated emergency brake in North-American designed cars resulted in the 'parking brake only' phenomena that tends to lead to seized brake cables.
Back to the OP... Yep, that sucks, in 4wd there is no way to usefully use the barking brake to rotate the car at slow speeds.
My car is a stage prepped rally car as well. We tried the red button disconnect trick a few times, out of 4wd, hand brake-rotate, corner, try to go back into 4wd. It just made horrific noises trying to re-engage 4wd. However, with your experience behind the big Audi, you will find the little Justy rotates quite well, maybe too well at stage speed. I completely understand you're desire to improve the rotation on tarmac, but I'll bet if you build the car, you will find that you drive very different lines then most other cars anyway. There just isn't enough power to come out of turn, so you do your best to maintain speed and take a wider line with a slower entrance speed (on tarmac).
Caveat: In response to SJ's comment about driving like hooligan on public roads. Zabolxp is taking about "stage rally" where we drive on CLOSED, controlled roads in cars that are filled with protective gear. I for one in no way condone "rally driving" on open public roads in a average Justy.
There are forms of rally that run on open roads. Time Speed Distance (TSD) rallies are run throughout the world. The goal is to reach a unknown checkpoint at a specific time. You must drive quickly, but not over the posted speed limit. Arriving too early en cures hefty penalties, arriving a bit late, not so much.
If you want to try you hand a driving at speed in a safe manner, check out local rally clubs for rally sprints or rally cross like extremj does. These are fun ways to slide around safely, and generally considerably less wear and tear on your car.
Be safe, play hard, grease your wheel bearings...
Matt
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Post by RedRooJusty on Feb 12, 2010 11:46:47 GMT -5
**danimal** I do the same thing on uphill starts, it really makes the brake-to-throttle transition easy/comfortable, and prevents me rolling back into the stupid-ass(s) who always seem to creep right up on my bumper while waiting for the traffic signal to change. The 'hand' brake has much utility (parking/emergency/brake assist). Unlike a foot-pedal parking brake that has only one useful function.
**Quidam** I agree, although I don't see the daily need for a "J-turn" .
-back on main topic, **zabolxp** we are all saying that the Justy 4WD is not made for what you are proposing. Stick with FWD, I can do a hand-brake tight 180° very easy with FWD vehicle (I do it to surprise my wife when she tells me "back there!! we just passed the turn" ;D)
-RRJ
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
Posts: 589
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Post by Danimal on Feb 12, 2010 18:32:37 GMT -5
prevents me rolling back into the stupid-ass(s) who always seem to creep right up on my bumper while waiting for the traffic signal to change. I certainly don't 'creep up' but I do come much closer to the car in front before stopping than the average American driver does. And yes I still cuss about the car rolling back towards me even though I ought to have known better than to stop so near in the first place. "Why the bloddy hell wont these Yanks use their damn handbrakes?!?" Stick with FWD, I can do a hand-brake tight 180° very easy with FWD vehicle (I do it to surprise my wife when she tells me "back there!! we just passed the turn" ;D) Yes.. where is the 'abuse' section? I can easily turn a Justy 180° within one lane at 25-30mph on dry pavement. downshift compression braking. Engine braking can easily turn into Justy abuse as well if done excessively. Works much better at getting tailgaters to back off than tapping the brakes does. ;D -Danimal
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