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Post by blacklight on Aug 27, 2009 7:43:57 GMT -5
Update... Out of coincidence, I discovered that the slow cut valve was leaking air (or at least some bubbles came out...) around the epoxy seat in which the solenoid resides in. I changed the valve into an other which I confirmed not to be leaking. This didn't change anything with my problem, however.
I also opened up the cambelt cover and checked the cam position. It was of by ½ cog (!)... :S So I moved it 1 cog counter clockwise (viewed from the pulley-side of engine) and put everything back together. Started up the engine, and voíla!... same f*****g problem... -.-
When I changed the slow cut valve however, I couldn't help to notice that it was literary liquidform fuel in there. :S That passage is just supposed to have a mixture in it. How the h**l can it be liquid fuel in there? :s Something is terribly wrong... :S
/Magnus.
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Post by blacklight on Aug 31, 2009 17:01:14 GMT -5
Just came up with a thought:
How much can a leaky carburetor gasket (the one between the floatchamber cover and carburetor body) affect the problem I'm experiencing?
/Magnus.
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Post by blacklight on Sept 2, 2009 5:00:52 GMT -5
How much can a leaky carburetor gasket affect the problem I'm experiencing? A leak in gasket can totally disable full speed or main jet circuit, depending on carb design. Lemme recall a story along these lines, After rebuilding a twin 35hp Johnson outboard, we found it to have no high end at all. These engines' carb have a gasket around the main jet that is the same thickness as the bowl gasket. Forget to install the middle gasket and the main jet only gets air. stacks Thanks. I made a new gasket today, but the problem is still there. This is really starting to get on my nerves... :@ /Magnus
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Post by blacklight on Sept 2, 2009 8:27:29 GMT -5
but the problem is still there. No surprise there; gaskets aren't the type of thing that fails all of a sudden. You've already discovered a low fuel level in bowl. Why? Ever get the needle seat out? stacks No. I haven't tried to loosen it using heat yet, but I will as soon as I get the time.
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Post by blacklight on Sept 6, 2009 9:27:48 GMT -5
Right. I made a special tool to loosen the needle valve seat today. An iron bar, 50 cm long, which I made an angle and grinded it so that it would fit the goove in the seat. I also added some depth to the groove in the seat so the torque would be distributed on a larger area. Next, I put the float chamber cover in a vise, put the tool in place and turned. "Click!" and it was loose. The reason it was so hard tightened was because it's upper threads were packed with deposits from the fuel running around it at the top of the valve. Now I've cleaned the threads in both the brass seat and it's "socket" in the cover. I also checked the cute little filter on top of the valve inlet and gave it an OK. Also, I checked the floatlevel today, and it's perfect. Though, I think it might be the main air bleed that's malfunctioning. This is because it seems odd that the fuel just disappears when I put on some gas, so I think that the air that is supposed to meet with the fuel in the emulsion tube either doesn't get there, or the quantity getting there is to small to mix with the fuel, thereby, the manifold vacuum just sucks the fuel through the main nozzle, emptying the floatchamber. Hence, the engine stops, as the fuel delivery system can't keep up. Good theory? /Magnus. PS. I run a website called www.subaruklubben.se , which is a club for all swedish Subaru-owners. When I get this problem solved, I will make a link to this site as a thanks for the wonderful help I'm getting here.
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Post by blacklight on Sept 8, 2009 3:07:36 GMT -5
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Post by blacklight on Sept 12, 2009 16:56:07 GMT -5
So anyone got any more ideas before I leave it to Subaru next week? /Magnus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 22:26:24 GMT -5
I would go with a carb rebuild. Even if it is not the root of the problem it will help tremedously. The diagnosis to date doesn't pin point anything, but the only possibilities I see at this point is worn dirty carb, plugged fuel lines (tank intake), or low current to the pump. When you adjusted the valves you made sure it was on the compression stroke right? Do you get rust particle build-up in your fuel filter?
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Post by motorfun on Sept 12, 2009 22:41:03 GMT -5
Hi . I also had a Carb problem that drove me to insanity and after rebuilding the thing it still gave me problems ! Idles sweet but no rpm`s , After testing and trying a load of things i realized i swapped the gas pipe with the return on the carb even thou they were different sizes?
Hope you get yours sorted mate , Cheers.
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Danimal
Getting my two Justys back together after a Justy hiatus.
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Post by Danimal on Sept 13, 2009 0:30:44 GMT -5
So anyone got any more ideas before I leave it to Subaru next week? What will the guys at Subaru try that you have not yet tried? I agree with the carb. rebuild or replacement with a brand new carb. I am guessing that you do not want to do this because you have been through the carburettor so thoroughly and it all seems fine. So, are you certain that everything on both ends of the system otherwise is as it ought to be? Wot is this about?: opened up the cambelt cover and checked the cam position. It was of by ½ cog (!)... :S So I moved it 1 cog counter clockwise (viewed from the pulley-side of engine) and put everything back together. Started up the engine, and voíla!... same f*****g problem... -.- You are still off by 1/2 of a cog or I don't follow your arithmetic. Did the belt jump it's teeth out from between cogs because the tensioner isn't right? Perhaps open that cover up again now and be sure it's still taut. Then get on with that carb. rebuild or let us know what Subaru does with 'er. Great stuff so far, keep up the great work! Wonderful pictures! -Danimal
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Post by blacklight on Sept 13, 2009 3:50:45 GMT -5
I would go with a carb rebuild. Even if it is not the root of the problem it will help tremedously. The diagnosis to date doesn't pin point anything, but the only possibilities I see at this point is worn dirty carb, plugged fuel lines (tank intake), or low current to the pump. When you adjusted the valves you made sure it was on the compression stroke right? Do you get rust particle build-up in your fuel filter? Yes, a carb rebuild is tempting, but a kit to my particular carb is very hard (read "impossible") to come by. :/ Yes, it was on the compression stroke. Discovered that the camshaft have marks on it for each cylinder which marks when the piston is at TDC. Nope. No rust. Though, when I dissected the old fuelfilter, I came across that the ends of the filter element were made out of metal, and had begun corroding for a while back. Before I installed the new filter, I flushed the fuelline to the carb with clean gasoline so that no deposits were left inside. Hi . I also had a Carb problem that drove me to insanity and after rebuilding the thing it still gave me problems ! Idles sweet but no rpm`s , After testing and trying a load of things i realized i swapped the gas pipe with the return on the carb even thou they were different sizes? Hope you get yours sorted mate , Cheers. Ok. Thanks for that input. However, the deliveryline is an 8 mm hose and the returnline is an 6 mm hose, so it's almost impossible to get it wrong. Good theory anyway. So anyone got any more ideas before I leave it to Subaru next week? What will the guys at Subaru try that you have not yet tried? I agree with the carb. rebuild or replacement with a brand new carb. I am guessing that you do not want to do this because you have been through the carburettor so thoroughly and it all seems fine. So, are you certain that everything on both ends of the system otherwise is as it ought to be? Wot is this about?: opened up the cambelt cover and checked the cam position. It was of by ½ cog (!)... :S So I moved it 1 cog counter clockwise (viewed from the pulley-side of engine) and put everything back together. Started up the engine, and voíla!... same f*****g problem... -.- You are still off by 1/2 of a cog or I don't follow your arithmetic. Did the belt jump it's teeth out from between cogs because the tensioner isn't right? Perhaps open that cover up again now and be sure it's still taut. Then get on with that carb. rebuild or let us know what Subaru does with 'er. Great stuff so far, keep up the great work! Wonderful pictures! -Danimal Hi Danimal. The guy I have spoken to at subaru is a 60 year old man who has been working with subaru since the 60's, so he's got the experience, and besides, as he's working at subaru, he's got possibility's to order any original part I need or get a rebuild-kit which I haven't been able to find. :/ Why I'm not getting a rebuild-kit or a new carb is because: 1. I don't know where to find one. 2. I'm not sure I've got the know-how. 3. I definitely don't have the money... :/ About the cambelt... Yes, it's still off by ½ cog, but since it's hard to see where the mark should be (long distance between matching marks), I'm guessing. About the pictures... Thanks man! I was out on a lake with my little "toaster" and mowed through 30 cm of fresh snow and the plain ice under it; no problem! I laughed when I saw a Nissan King Cab beeing stuck... >:-D I love my car. //Magnus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2009 14:10:37 GMT -5
In older subarus there is a transistor in the Fuel Pump Control Unit that goes bad, at which point the pump doesn't provide enough fuel. You can have 12V but low current at the pump. I wouldn't know where to look for the FPCU in your van, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the culprit. A new transistor is about $1.00 US.
The FPCU in the older cars is a small black plastic box bolted by the hood release approximately 5 cm x 7 cm x 3 cm in size. In other subarus I think it is a metal box. I think it is located somewhere else in the Justy. I know that probably doesn't help you much with the van, but if you don't have a good manual you can attempt to trace the wires back from the pump. I am very jealous of your van BTW
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Post by blacklight on Sept 13, 2009 18:52:01 GMT -5
In older subarus there is a transistor in the Fuel Pump Control Unit that goes bad, at which point the pump doesn't provide enough fuel. You can have 12V but low current at the pump. I wouldn't know where to look for the FPCU in your van, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the culprit. A new transistor is about $1.00 US. The FPCU in the older cars is a small black plastic box bolted by the hood release approximately 5 cm x 7 cm x 3 cm in size. In other subarus I think it is a metal box. I think it is located somewhere else in the Justy. I know that probably doesn't help you much with the van, but if you don't have a good manual you can attempt to trace the wires back from the pump. I am very jealous of your van BTW Nope. The fuelpump has all electronics inside of it. It just needs the current from the vehicle harness to function. Measured this, and it's at 12,34 or something. The fuelpressure is controlled mechanically via the design of the fuelpump plunger. Not to all: I have the workshop repair manual, but it doesn't help me. If you want wiring diagrams or exploded-view diagrams to help diagnosing; I can provide so. Last; "I am very jealous of your van BTW" Awwww.... /Magnus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2009 20:45:48 GMT -5
Nope. The fuelpump has all electronics inside of it. It just needs the current from the vehicle harness to function. Measured this, and it's at 12,34 or something. So are you saying that the FPCU is integral to the pump or that your van does not have a FPCU? Unless Sweden has very minimal auto safety laws, your vehicle should have a distinct FPCU. Or have you just bypassed it? The 12.34 reading your are measuring is voltage not current. A bad ground connection to the pump could also cause this problem.
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Post by blacklight on Sept 14, 2009 4:06:27 GMT -5
Nope. The fuelpump has all electronics inside of it. It just needs the current from the vehicle harness to function. Measured this, and it's at 12,34 or something. So are you saying that the FPCU is integral to the pump or that your van does not have a FPCU? Unless Sweden has very minimal auto safety laws, your vehicle should have a distinct FPCU. Or have you just bypassed it? The 12.34 reading your are measuring is voltage not current. A bad ground connection to the pump could also cause this problem. Here's a pic... Since the car first came to sweden in 1985, it's possible that a FPCU wasn't a demand at that time. /Magnus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 0:57:35 GMT -5
That is the basic diagram of a subaru fuel pump for all of their carbed vehicles. The FPCU is different, and should be a component on any 1985 subaru.
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Post by blacklight on Sept 15, 2009 2:38:12 GMT -5
ferox:
Nope. There is no such thing, either on the car or the wiring diagram. Sorry. :/
/Magnus.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 23:14:46 GMT -5
There is no such thing, either on the car or the wiring diagram. Oddly enough I have tried to find it on the wiring diagram before and did not find it anywhere, but it is still a part of the fuel pump power circuit. Unless you have completely traced the wires from the pump to power source you should not speak in absolutes. Remember I am trying to help you by answering your request for any more ideas before you take it to Subaru. Your van should have a FPCU. At the very least it cuts power to the pump if your engine stops but the key is in the ON position in the ignition switch. Such as, if you were in an accident. It is an important safety feature that is most likely required by law in Sweden for Subaru to import cars. It may also be called a Fuel Pump Relay. A 1985 alternator should be internally regulated, but if it is externally regulated then the Pump Control Unit may be integral to the External Voltage Regualtor. However, that is not likely since Subaru stopped using EVR in their other cars after 1981. If your pump does not have a ground wire coming directly off of it that means it is grounded through the FPCU. If it does have a ground coming directly from it that means it is grounded at the pump and the FPCU, and if so make sure the ground connection at the pump is good. Sweden does not seem like a place that would have minimal automotive safety regulations, and I think Subaru would include a FPCU as a safety feature regardless of whether it was required. That is the extent to which I am going to try to convince you. Good Luck
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Post by blacklight on Sept 18, 2009 9:34:49 GMT -5
ferox:
Sorry man. Didn't mean to upset you.
Made an experiment earlier to check whether the fuelpump activity was controlled by either rhe battery or the alternator. Here's how I did it: Disconnected the deliveryline from the carb and placed it in a bottle. I put the ignition on -> nothing. I started the engine and let it run on the fuel still inside the carb. The bottle started to fill up with fuel, indicating that the fuelpump is working normally. I idled the engine untill it stalled from lack of fuel. Then something interesting happened... The fuelpump just pumped about 2-3 seconds after the engine stoped, and then stops pumping.
Is this the typical effect that indicates the presence of a FPCU?
The fuelpump has 2 wires running from it, likely that it is + and ground, but I haven't been able to follow the groundwire, so your theory about it heading to some variety of an FPCU is likely.
About the alternator... It's basically a standard one-pulley AC-generator with built-in silicone diodes to convert the current into DC, and a IC regulator to regulate the charging current. It's the original generator that came with the car about 6500 (metric) miles ago. Between now and then, it has stood unused for about 12 years because of a previous cam belt failure (and my dad didn't have the time to fix it). About 3 years ago, I assembled the engine again, but the alternator was stuck in it's position. I used plenty of WD40 (rust-solving and greasing stuff) and put the pulley in a vise, turned a couple of times, and it was loose. Turned the alternator stand-alone with compressed air directed towards the fan to make sure it ran smooth.
Is it possible that this might have damaged it, and now it's failing?
Sincerely, Magnus.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 23:09:43 GMT -5
Sorry man. Didn't mean to upset you. Made an experiment earlier to check whether the fuelpump activity was controlled by either rhe battery or the alternator. Is it possible that this might have damaged it, and now it's failing? I am not really upset, but I understand how you got that impression. I do a lot of technical writing and don't have much extra time these days so my posts are very matter-of-fact and direct. However, on other similar forums it is a major faux pas to ask for help, receive it from a knowlegeable person, and then deny or disregard it. As far as the FPCU is concerned, your are going to have a hard time "blackboxing" the unit. It's there and in a protected spot. It's probably in the dash area, or being a rear engine vehicle, in the interior of the vehicle somewhere. But since I am unfortunately not familiar with your super sweet van (I have considered moving to Canada just to get a Sambar) I will give a caveat that it could be anywhere protected, i.e. behind interior panels. If I had more time I would post some pictures of one that I have from a 1984 GL. If I find time later, I might be able to get to that. As far as the alternator is concerned, a bad alt. shouldn't cause the problem you are experiencing. You can test them in-place easily with a multi-meter and there are cheap battery/alt testers you can get. I like to give them a good cleaning with electronics cleaner from time to time, just make sure it has evaporated before you start the car.
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