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Post by lowryde on Mar 6, 2009 12:37:58 GMT -5
thanks jeremydde that is the most metal diagram on this board.
how are you controling timing advance vacume on the stock pcm?
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 6, 2009 14:43:50 GMT -5
thanks jeremydde that is the most metal diagram on this board. how are you controling timing advance vacume on the stock pcm? There is no stock pcm. The megasquirt controls everything. Jeremy |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 8, 2009 15:29:54 GMT -5
Well back with some more photos. Here you can see the cold side pipe as it is installed behind the radiator before I painted it high-heat black.  Here you can see the cold side pipe leading down beside the radiator into the DSM intercooler. If you look carefully you can see the Mazda MX6 factory Blow-Off/Pop-Off valve installed lower on the charge pipe.  And here is the engine bay as it sits today. I just need to install a thread-in GM intake air temperature sensor and paint up the final pipe.  Now I need to source a stronger clutch. I've still had no luck in finding one. I emailed Dusty's Justy's and he told me that he has had a custom clutch made at DxD Clutches before. I will try and follow up on that. Jeremy |
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Post by justyjon on Mar 9, 2009 14:03:23 GMT -5
Nicely done!  What is the expected HP gain from all of this? |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 9, 2009 16:54:33 GMT -5
Nicely done! What is the expected HP gain from all of this? So far it seems substantial. I can't go full throttle as the clutch will slip, but according to my datalogs I'm hitting about 5psi at around 40% throttle and it really gets up and goes. I would say that if I could floor it that it is around 110-120HP. First gear doesn't load up the engine enough to boost much, then 2nd takes right off. Third gear and on and the cluch just slips like crazy. I have to upgrade my injectors however as they are maxed out at only 4psi or so. The fuel pressure was raised a tad with a restrictor but I will install some new injectors shortly. Jeremy |
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Mar 9, 2009 18:28:33 GMT -5
I have to upgrade my injectors however as they are maxed out at only 4psi or so. The fuel pressure was raised a tad with a restrictor but I will install some new injectors shortly. Do you mean the injector (on) cycle time is maxed out? You might fit a torque wrench to the crank pulley and see what torque is required to get clutch to slip with wheels on ground. This poor man's dyno could give an estimate of engine torque at 5psi at 'x' rpm or at least slipping torque of clutch. Your bottleneck is never solved, just moved around. What boost level is the limit without intercooler? Interesting point Jeremy makes about MAP sensors and stock Justy; like a gnome looking at a vaccum gauge under the dash! Does your Megasquirt do away with MAP sensors in preference of throttle position? stacks Hey Stacks, do you have any photos of how to get a torque wrench with socket, on the pulley bolt with both wheels on the ground? I have always had to support my car on stands, remove the wheel and use the access hole in the frame rail. |
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Post by lowryde on Mar 9, 2009 19:43:30 GMT -5
are you useing the internal map sensor with your MS
and for direct coil control did you have to do an add on with your MS?
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 9, 2009 19:50:45 GMT -5
are you useing the internal map sensor with your MS and for direct coil control did you have to do an add on with your MS? Yes, I'm using the internal map sensor that came with the megasquirt. It is good to 21psi before you need an upgrade. For direct coil control the megasquirt kit comes with everything you need to run a single coil. For the justy this is fine unless you want to run 3 coils with a coil-on-plug setup. Jeremy |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 9, 2009 20:20:22 GMT -5
Do you mean the injector (on) cycle time is maxed out? Yes when the injectors are maxed I was referring to the on cycle time. This means that the injectors are working so hard that they are pretty much kept wide open in an effort to supply enough fuel for the engine. You might fit a torque wrench to the crank pulley and see what torque is required to get clutch to slip with wheels on ground. This poor man's dyno could give an estimate of engine torque at 5psi at 'x' rpm or at least slipping torque of clutch. There are several problems with measuring the torque this way. One problem is that if the torque you are attempting to measure is greater than the torque spec of the crank pulley bolt (72ft/lb) then you are just either over-torquing the nut or loosening it. Another possible problem is that the clutch can hold more or less torque depending on it's temperature. Once the clutch gets hot it holds less. This means that by trying your experiment that the clutch would seem to hold more torque than it actually can since the engine is off, and the clutch is cool. This would just get our hopes up if it takes 120ft/lbs or more to "slip". There is also the issue with gradual or instantaneous torque applied as well. If there is a sudden torque applied it will be more likely to slip at a lower amount of torque than it would if we gradually apply this force. Anyways, all this aside, it's difficult to put a torque bar on the pulley and measure greater than 100ft/lbs anyways since these bars are quite large. Especially with the tires on the ground and loaded. I have some torque gauges/wrenches in the shop that can read in excess of 800ft/lbs but are over 4 feet long. Your bottleneck is never solved, just moved around. What boost level is the limit without intercooler? Alot of cars run varying levels of boost without an intercooler. This all depends on how high the intake air charge temperature gets, and when x temp becomes a problem. A general rule of thumb is 10psi, however it's not difficult to install one, and they are cheap enough anyways. You are pretty much guaranteed to have a more reliable setup with one as it helps prevent detonation at any boost level. In my case, it isn't necessary but I have tuned it so far on only 87 octane fuel. The intercooler in this case will pay for itself since I am able to run cheaper fuel. I could make more power with a higher octane fuel, but my goal with this car is to keep the running expenses down. Otherwise I could have started with a more powerful platform to begin with if fuel economy and expense weren't a priority. Interesting point Jeremy makes about MAP sensors and stock Justy; like a gnome looking at a vaccum gauge under the dash! Does your Megasquirt do away with MAP sensors in preference of throttle position? The megasquirt relies on a map sensor much like many other fuel injection computers do. There is nothing wrong with them. I have the option of running the engine solely by the TPS sensor however that wouldn't be the most efficient way to run it. The only reason that you would ever want to run an engine solely by it's TPS sensor would be in the case of insanely large camshafts and/or individual throttle bodies. In these cases the map sensor wouldn't be effective since there isn't enough vacuum pressure to read. Also these engines suffer from severe vacuum fluctuations which make it impossible to tune with a map sensor. Jeremy |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 9, 2009 23:21:31 GMT -5
Good to know the injector orifice or size is an issue. Will your megasquirt allow rising rate reg fuel rail pressure? The crank torque clutch test was only a tip to give idea of clutch shape. I've had(having) troubles with crank key ways and am not shy of torquing the bolt well above 100ft-lbs(of course the clutch slips and a helper must pin the flywheel ring gear thru starter hole). Never a bad idea to redo clutch parts; I was surprised to find my inner flywheel pilot bearing appart with grooves on a side of clutch plate; like a ballbearing was stuck there. The irony here is that you've managed to turbo your engine while in situ, must you pull the engine to simply replace the clutch? stacks The megasquirt doesn't know/care about fuel pressure. You simply tune the fuel map at whatever fuel pressure you are set too. Then you just have to remember to always run the same pressure so that you are always in tune. I will have to pull the engine to change the clutch, although it doesn't look too difficult to do. You want to turbo the engine with it in the car so that you can work out any clearance problems while you are fabricating. To turbo the motor on a stand is just looking for problems like downpipe fitment and radiator clearance that can be difficult to overcome later. Jeremy |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 10, 2009 9:33:45 GMT -5
You want to turbo the engine with it in the car so that you can work out any clearance problems while you are fabricating. Handy to have 20/20 foresight here. You might check the 'stage 3' puck type clutches on ebay. They list no torque rating; only 65% more 'clamp' than stock, whatever that means. Probably means not good enough. I can see why you, with MS, wouldn't want to get involved non-linear fuel rail/manifold pressure. You've mentioned adding a restriction to bump pressure. Could you of raised the fuel rail pressure even more, say doubled(plus one manifold pressure) by adding another stock reg in series downstream? Is there a pressure limit to the injectors which may cause to leak or produce a poor spray/mist? I'm not, of course, in any rush to turbo my justy. Just trying to get a feel of what limits are possible with the fewest changed parts and least investment. Lucky there are a few project to look back on, for I haven't 20/20 foresight, it's myopia! stacks You wouldn't want to raise the fuel pressure too much otherwise the injectors will have to work harder against the fuel pressure. Also there can be spray pattern problems to deal with as well. Idle fueling would be unstable and too rich also. Injectors are easy enough to come by that there is no need to permanently jack up the fuel pressure. I also have an extra injector circuit remaining with the megasquirt and could put in a few additional injectors if need be. A friend bought an ebay stage 3 clutch off of ebay for his 2000 Impreza Turbo, and it has only lasted him a few months before it was slipping. If it's my only option then I'll try one, but I would almost prefer a custom made one from a reputable company. Jeremy |
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Mar 10, 2009 10:42:59 GMT -5
You wouldn't want to raise the fuel pressure too much otherwise the injectors will have to work harder against the fuel pressure. Also there can be spray pattern problems to deal with as well. Idle fueling would be unstable and too rich also. Injectors are easy enough to come by that there is no need to permanently jack up the fuel pressure. I also have an extra injector circuit remaining with the megasquirt and could put in a few additional injectors if need be. A friend bought an ebay stage 3 clutch off of ebay for his 2000 Impreza Turbo, and it has only lasted him a few months before it was slipping. If it's my only option then I'll try one, but I would almost prefer a custom made one from a reputable company. Jeremy Amen to that. All of those "stage-#" items on eBay are a load of crap & I'd bet that most of them are ordinary clutches that have been spray painted yellow. I resent this tage1 stage2 stage3 mentality and nomenclature that today's so called enthusiasts subscribe to. I am just old enough to remember when you had to know what something meant and a number had a meaning. A carburetor was measured either by flow in CFM (cubic feet per minute) or else by venturi diameter (1-1/4" SU, 40mm Weber) and drivetrain parts were sold by load capacity I.E. this item is good up to 200LB-FT etc. Wasn't there a bit of info about the old 1.6L Subarus having the same clutch as a Justy? If that is true then maybe a GL10 Turbo clutch might be an option. Does anyone have a 1.6L boxer out for measuring? |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 10, 2009 18:52:34 GMT -5
Wasn't there a bit of info about the old 1.6L Subarus having the same clutch as a Justy? If that is true then maybe a GL10 Turbo clutch might be an option. Does anyone have a 1.6L boxer out for measuring? I remember that there was another clutch application that was mentioned before that was made by centerforce, but I can't recall the model. Jeremy |
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Post by Justy4x4 on Mar 10, 2009 19:24:33 GMT -5
Wasn't there a bit of info about the old 1.6L Subarus having the same clutch as a Justy? If that is true then maybe a GL10 Turbo clutch might be an option. Does anyone have a 1.6L boxer out for measuring? I remember that there was another clutch application that was mentioned before that was made by centerforce, but I can't recall the model. Jeremy I believe the early Leone 1.4 liter engines were the same as the Justy. Might be worth looking into. |
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Post by subyswamper on Mar 10, 2009 22:19:07 GMT -5
Yes the early leone engines used the same clutch. The engine code for the 1.4L is the ea63. I work at a subaru rebuild shop. ;D
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 11, 2009 4:26:32 GMT -5
Yes the early leone engines used the same clutch. The engine code for the 1.4L is the ea63. I work at a subaru rebuild shop. ;D I haven't been able to find a clutch for that application either.  Jeremy |
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Post by subyswamper on Mar 11, 2009 8:27:31 GMT -5
ACT makes a really sturdy clutch for the justy. Check ebay for that one. I have seen them there for sale. That is the one I will use when I build my engine.
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 11, 2009 15:47:07 GMT -5
ACT makes a really sturdy clutch for the justy. Check ebay for that one. I have seen them there for sale. That is the one I will use when I build my engine. I emailed ACT and they promptly replied with the following. Unfortunately it seems that the clutch you saw on ebay was a false advertisement. Jeremy, Thank you for your e-mail and interest in ACT products. At this time we do not offer a clutch kit for your application. However we will note your request and if and when we do produce such a clutch, we will send you information such as a new product release. If you have any other questions, please contact us using the information below. Regards, Richard Weiser Sales & Tech Support Advanced Clutch Technology, Inc. 206 East Avenue K-4 Lancaster, CA 93535 (661) 940-7555 Ext.107 www.advancedclutch.com |
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Post by jeremydde on Mar 11, 2009 15:51:45 GMT -5
So I phoned Euro-Drive Clutches in Burlington, Ontario. www.euro-drive.com/Clutches.htmNew link: www.euro-drive.com/They have priced me out a kevlar based disc, and a heavy duty pressure plate for $390 CDN. The turn-around time is 1 week for the manufacturing, then they'll ship it out to me in Vancouver via UPS. I will be home from work in 3 weeks, then I'll install it and let you guys know. Jeremy |
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Post by =Justyless= on Mar 11, 2009 16:48:00 GMT -5
I just ordered a "stage 1" clutch off of ebay.  Its should arrive Tuesday/Wednesday next week. Ill let you know how good or bad it is lol. It was only 100 bucks so either way its all good |
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Sept 26, 2022 10:46:22 GMT -5
Sept 26, 2022 10:46:22 GMT -5
Is your car an ecvt?
Sept 27, 2022 3:37:41 GMT -5
Is your car an ecvt?
Sept 27, 2022 3:37:41 GMT -5