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Post by earthbounding on Jul 12, 2015 11:56:50 GMT -5
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Post by southerner on Jul 12, 2015 14:46:57 GMT -5
interesting.. never thought of this before..
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jul 27, 2015 10:52:37 GMT -5
i strongly disagree that electrolysis has anything substantial to do with it.
Its far more likely the fact that subaru engines are flat and lead to one side of the gasket constantly being bathed in oil and coolant when at rest. also the fact that they use torque to yield bolts and do not have an actual torque setting. lots of things can affect a stretch bolt on install leading to a random torque value. Ive never taken note of how and where the head bolts are but im sure thats not helping either.
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 28, 2015 0:28:32 GMT -5
Cooling system electrolysis is a big deal and shouldn't be overlooked.
However, most Subaru horizontally opposed engines had issues due to poor head gasket design, poor coolant maintenance (whether that be electrolysis related, or just neglected coolant turning acidic) and that leading to coolant leaks then ultimately overheating.
I wouldn't bash TTY bolts. They're a better design than having to re-torque the heads. They do have an initial torque spec to follow before applying the stretch angle.
That being said, I think car manufacturers now-a-days get really carried away with TTY bolts. They use them on everything including harmonic balancers, axle bolts, flywheel bolts, etc.. Places that shouldn't require you to order a freakin' bolt from the dealer and wait a week. (Ask me how I know?)
Terry
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jul 28, 2015 10:16:40 GMT -5
ive never seen a tty bolt on a car beyond subaru head gaskets. non on honda, none on nissan, none on mazda (that i know of)
axle "bolts" cant be tty, those are giant nuts.
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Post by Mato393 on Jul 28, 2015 15:20:52 GMT -5
axle "bolts" cant be tty, those are giant nuts. VW got axle bolts... My parent's Forester probably got problem with headgasket... It overheats in low speed (in harder terrain)...
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 28, 2015 15:24:55 GMT -5
Well that was an ignorant reply.
Terry
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jul 29, 2015 10:18:23 GMT -5
heres a better one.
go farcle yourself.
1 manufacturer and its volkswgen that uses them. as if volkswagen has ever developed something good.
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Post by bizarro on Jul 29, 2015 13:19:52 GMT -5
"Go farcle yourself"......thank you, forum auto-editing, I am now thinking of that one scene out of the film, "Demolition Man".....
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Post by Armageddous on Jul 29, 2015 23:45:47 GMT -5
heres a better one. go farcle yourself. 1 manufacturer and its volkswgen that uses them. as if volkswagen has ever developed something good. Excuse me? Are you a child or something? I was elaborating on TTY bolts, then you responded ignorantly (as in, without prior knowledge or research about the subject - Yea, about the head bolts too.) and now I'm getting a swear handed to me? Look, I was right with everything I said. It was supposed to be informative. Apparently information, learning and having an open mind is way beyond your superior intellect. Or something. I've been in the automotive trade a number of years and have replaced more cylinder heads and axles on more vehicles then you will ever touch in your life. Do your research before you embarrass your self again. Terry
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jul 30, 2015 10:01:30 GMT -5
wasnt ignorant asshole. 1 company uses tty bolts. and you presume everyone uses them. whose ignorant now?
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Post by bizarro on Jul 30, 2015 10:17:58 GMT -5
Can I be a moderator?
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Post by madmatt on Jul 30, 2015 11:33:07 GMT -5
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Post by sp0ngebob on Jul 30, 2015 12:27:59 GMT -5
no do go on. show everyone that working on one of these pieces of shit for 30 years has somehow granted you wondrous education. lets hear it.
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Post by southerner on Jul 30, 2015 17:43:39 GMT -5
Guys, chill, wtf..
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Post by madmatt on Aug 6, 2015 9:59:58 GMT -5
no do go on. show everyone that working on one of these pieces of shit for 30 years has somehow granted you wondrous education. lets hear it. Was that directed at me? Sorry, I'm not sure what's going on here, particularly since I haven't been working on a Justy for 30 years... I bought mine in 2004.
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Post by kastein on Aug 7, 2015 8:21:55 GMT -5
Yikes. This sure got heated. sp0ngebob, as someone who just read the whole thread all at once, you need to chill out and deal with the fact that you were wrong and it only took one example to prove it.
FWIW, even as a guy who owns four jeeps that use axle nuts, as well as my Justy which uses axle nuts, and zero VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) products, I prefer axle bolts. Why? The threads are protected from the elements rather than being exposed and susceptible to rusting. I have had to use a four foot pipe on my strongest 3/4" breaker bar to remove an axle nut due to rust, but have never needed more than a regular 1/2" breaker bar to pop a VW axle bolt loose. Their use of a large allen head is rather disappointing, I would prefer an external drive (and in fact most VW aftermarket axleshafts come with hex bolts) but still, the threads are never rusty and the bolts come right out.
It has *zero* to do with the gasket being bathed in coolant and oil at all times. It's an engine, the cooling system (if properly bled) is 100% bathed in coolant even in something like an inline 6. Oil exposure is fine too, if you design an engine with a head gasket that is susceptible to damage from oil and coolant you are a terrible engineer.
The issue with Subaru EJ/EA series head gaskets failing is mostly coolant acidification and the gaskets simply not being up to the task, they are crummy composite gaskets from the factory. In my 2000 Forester I've simply substituted a set of 11044AA642 MLS (multi layer stainless steel) head gaskets intended for a WRX STI, and have had zero problems with head gasket failure since.
Electrolytic corrosion can be a serious issue in unmaintained cooling systems however, especially when it results in radiator, water jacket, or heater core corrosion.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Aug 7, 2015 11:33:44 GMT -5
the problem is there IS only ONE example and its a terrible design at that.
nuts are designed to yield. its part of how they carry load. diameter also matters for load bearing items liek this. so why would a company not only cut threads on the inside of a blind hole, which is much more expensive, AND lose diameter AND force a bolt to yield rather than a disposable nut.
all of that shows that its a poor choice. and if you think for a moment that just because a major manufacturer used it, look at VW's track record for reliability and maintainability or as us in the industry call it...."Sustainment".
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Post by kastein on Aug 7, 2015 22:57:38 GMT -5
Be that as it may, you jumped down his throat and said "no one" uses axle bolts.
He gave an example, which was enough to prove you wrong.
So you cranked up the anger instead of admitting it was a valid point.
In engineering we call that being aggressively wrong.
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Post by sp0ngebob on Aug 11, 2015 15:49:28 GMT -5
sample size of 1 means dick in engineering or any other data collection effort.
i presume you are not an engineer if you dont readily know that.
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