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Post by therealjoel on Nov 19, 2011 20:51:32 GMT -5
So I don't know that anyone pays attention to my posts, but I destroyed my front end recently and just began to fix her up. In the process of fixing my little beat I'd love topic some after market products on her to give her a little more oooomfff. Now my brother and I are argueing about a turbo and two of us say it's a bad idea because that engine reply can't handle a turbo if it's going to be a daily driver. I'm thinking a new intake system, exaust and that's about it. I don't like penis so a spoiler on my justy is out of the picture cause I'm not going to be doing 180+( I hate the people that put a spoiler on a car who will never actually need it). Anyone else got some ideas that will bump up the hp to closer to 130-150 cause I think that would be perfect. Just to put people to shame with a little oooommff.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 19, 2011 22:24:47 GMT -5
So I don't know that anyone pays attention to my posts, but I destroyed my front end recently and just began to fix her up. In the process of fixing my little beat I'd love topic some after market products on her to give her a little more oooomfff. Now my brother and I are argueing about a turbo and two of us say it's a bad idea because that engine reply can't handle a turbo if it's going to be a daily driver. I'm thinking a new intake system, exaust and that's about it. I don't like penis so a spoiler on my justy is out of the picture cause I'm not going to be doing 180+( I hate the people that put a spoiler on a car who will never actually need it). Anyone else got some ideas that will bump up the hp to closer to 130-150 cause I think that would be perfect. Just to put people to shame with a little oooommff. 130-150 HP?! Are you serious? Dude, 130HP in a Justy puts it in Mustang GT territory and 150HP in a Justy would have you flirting with newer Corvettes IF you could get traction. To get that kind of power out of an EF12 (Justy engine) you will have to spend some major money and put in lot's and lot's and lot's of time on a dynamometer to tune it. Then you're gonna have to spend some more major money on the transmission because it's not gonna play ball for more than two innings with that kind of power. I think you should consider a more realistic goal like 90HP, that's an almost 25% increase over the fuel injected Justy and more than a 35% increase over the carbureted Justy (if you believe the factory figures) . A ninety horsepower Justy can be done without too much expense and would make any Justy feel like a VW GTI or Corrado. Hmm, come to think of it, it'd be cheaper, easier and more reliable to just buy a Corrado. . .
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Post by therealjoel on Nov 20, 2011 12:03:53 GMT -5
Hey SJ my justy neighbor across the water. I appreciate your input and your right I was hoping somebody would catch that. I know that 130hp would be out of the idea without turbo, and a bunch of other thing that could include a different engine all together. i would like to keep my justy a justy and not have it justy be a justy shell. my brother was trying to talk me into attempting to put a del sol engine in. NO CHANCE!. but i just want some extra ooommmfff, and you really didnt actually answer the hp idea, just shot down the 130hp joke
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Nov 20, 2011 22:45:20 GMT -5
Hey SJ my justy neighbor across the water. I appreciate your input and your right I was hoping somebody would catch that. I know that 130hp would be out of the idea without turbo, and a bunch of other thing that could include a different engine all together. i would like to keep my justy a justy and not have it justy be a justy shell. my brother was trying to talk me into attempting to put a del sol engine in. NO CHANCE!. but i just want some extra ooommmfff, and you really didnt actually answer the hp idea, just shot down the 130hp joke I did answer you actually. I said that a realistic 90HP is a good goal for which to shoot or else look into another car. What did you pay for your Justy? $500? $1000? $1500? More? Are you ready to take it off the road for awhile and spend months and a couple of thousand more performing an elaborate powertrain transplant? I say powertrain not engine and I say transplant rather than swap. Here are the reasons why: - You can't really use other engines and keep the Justy transmission
- A swap is when you ditch a Honda D-series and replace it with a B-series. You can grab a wheelbarrow load of parts from other Hondas and make it all fit without too much trouble. This isn't going to be the case with the Justy, so you're talking about a full on transplant.
If you try to mate another engine to the Justy transmission you have to keep in mind that the EF12 (Justy engine) is 15.5" long from the rear to the harmonic balancer. That means that You can only use any engine about 15.25" long (a quarter inch less) because you have to leave yourself a little bit of room for the custom adapter plate needed to mate the alien engine to the Justy transmission. So what 15.25" long engines that can make 130HP+ did you have in mind? Exactly. So a full powertrain it is then, a complete engine and transmission change. So what'll it be then? You already eschewed Honda so how about Mazda? Toyota? Volkswagen? Well whatever it's gonna be you can count on the axles being too long and also not fitting into the Justy hubs. So you're not only going to have to find an engine and transmission that will physically fit into the engine bay but you will also have to either have axles custom made or else have custom axles made and try to adapt your donor car's suspension into your Justy's chassis. Okay so maybe you don't want to graft some other suspension onto your Justy. . . that is if what you said above is sincere. Either way, you will still need to have custom axles made because of the length. Oh and don't forgot that those Victor Frankenstein'd axles will need to be balanced by someone too. I mean, you can't just weld two different axles together and expect them to be vibration free. Does this other powertrain use a hydraulic clutch? Because if it does then you're gonna have to add that system to the Justy because the Justy uses a simple and space efficient cable. How much does this other powertrain weigh? Because the Justy's good balance is partly due to its very light engine and transmission. I don't have numbers yet but I did recently lift an EF12 shortblock out of a Justy with only my hands. You're gonna need to use the donor car's fuel pump(s) too because I'm pretty sure the Justy's cannot deliver enough fuel for a 130-150HP engine. What are your plans for the brakes? Lemme guess; you were hoping I had some advice for that too. By the the time you're done with this experiment you'll have taken all of the running gear from a Nissan or a Toyota and crammed it into a vehicle with a narrower track, a shorter wheelbase and probably a higher center of gravity. If you don't spin out in such a vehicle you will be able to congratulate yourself on making what you described as If you want a 150HP Hatchback then go buy a Honda. If you dislike Honda then buy a Volkswagen. If you want a 90HP hatchback then buy a. . . Honda or Volkswagen Okay but seriously if you are hell bent in going faster in a Justy and driving it every day and not spending $5000 and an entire Winter season building it then I suggest you pick up an EF12 from a Junkyard and build it up from scratch. Read read read up on conventional methods of unlocking torque and power from a longblock (and when I say read up I don't mean to scour the internet and car-forum/message boards because those are terrible places to try to get truth and science most of the time). You can buy books on this subject at local racing events, local parts stores and at www.amazon.com Whether or not you take the logical road to buying a fast car or the less logical road of trying to make the Justy into something it is not, please do take lot's of pictures! because everybody talks and very few people do and even the people that do rarely finish and the ones that finish seem to go away and never report what happens to their engines after a year of driving
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Post by Armageddous on Dec 9, 2011 21:59:04 GMT -5
My car is a 1st generation. I put in a fully rebuilt EFI motor, cold air intake, port and polished head/intake, larger throttle body. Built a tubular header, custom 2" exhaust, increased the oil pan capacity, lightened the flywheel, put taller tires on have combed through every possible 'tuning' procedure I could preform with the stock EFI (ie: using a combination of fuel pressure change, setting ignition timing, plug gapping, TPS adjustments while monitoring exhaust output and intake velocity with the machines at work).. And I swear, my car has 5 more hp. Terry
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Post by justyjuggler on Dec 13, 2011 13:19:23 GMT -5
Sheesh, I gots me 10 by indexing the plugs!
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Post by Armageddous on Dec 13, 2011 15:41:30 GMT -5
Oh yea? And the dyno supports this? ;D Terry
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Post by justyjuggler on Dec 14, 2011 8:40:49 GMT -5
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 14, 2011 13:10:37 GMT -5
A justy owner actually plop down money for a dyno time? Never!
I only know of that Suisse guy that compound-charged his Justy and put it on the dyno. He claimed nearly 300HP but we haven't heard from him ever since. I'm guessing he has an engine block with a view now.
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Post by hollandjusty on Dec 14, 2011 14:40:42 GMT -5
A justy owner actually plop down money for a dyno time? Never! Incorrect Been there, done that. 3 times, about 7/8 runs. HP increase? 36% No turbo, no supercharger just stock Justy parts
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 14, 2011 19:06:44 GMT -5
A justy owner actually plop down money for a dyno time? Never! Incorrect Been there, done that. 3 times, about 7/8 runs. HP increase? 36% No turbo, no supercharger just stock Justy parts Well then, show us!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by hollandjusty on Dec 25, 2011 5:03:41 GMT -5
Well.. I'll tell I hope you guys won't be too disappointed. Why? I'm talking about a 1000cc build I did 3 years ago. What did I do? I took the cylinder head, intake, wiring of a 1200cc MPFI (USDM ) and installed it all on a 1000cc engine. But I had to swap some more parts. For example the pistons. The 1000cc engine has 2 valves per cylinder instead of 3. After installing the engine in my street car the CEL went on What went wrong? The first fix was easy.. the thermo sensor literally broke. The second (and final) problem was more expensive to fix, but not completely unexpected. Because of the decreased engine size the injectors had to much capacity. I calculated the reduction of the engine size (1000/1200)=(5/6). Then multiplied the injector size by (5/6)th and started to look for injectors of that size. After installing my new injectors (E-bay USA) it ran without a problem! I got a pm from a very much appreciated Justy forum member with a question about the compression ratio among other things. To answer his question: Yes (unfortunately/again not unexpected) the compression ratio did lower. Stock compression ratio 1000cc : 9,5 : 1 1200cc : 9,1 : 1 I calculated the new compression ratio to be 8,5 : 1 (Ideal for turbo?!) After the build I went to the dyno several times (once "forced" ;D). The 1000cc MPFI -still proud of it- turned out to make 68hp (ignition maximum advanced). Compared to the stock (gen II) 1000cc engine, which makes 50hp, I have a ((68/50)-1)*100 = 36% hp gain. That's my story for now. I'll look up my cr calculation to make sure I'm telling you guys the truth. And I'll post a dyno sheet soon! edit: In action! 0:17 till 1:10, then I broke the gearbox youtu.be/BKksDqKM22g
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Dec 25, 2011 15:01:27 GMT -5
Great post and good job on your hybrid engine. We look forward to seeing your dyno slip soon.
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Post by Captain Nemo on Dec 27, 2011 12:35:01 GMT -5
Skimming the block should get a few more and better mid-range pull as well when the compression comes back up.
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Post by hollandjusty on Dec 29, 2011 11:19:23 GMT -5
I didn't have the block skimmed, I did however have the head skimmed
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Post by micco on Jan 1, 2012 11:20:43 GMT -5
I think my Justy could have 130 hp now
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Post by hollandjusty on Jan 9, 2012 16:48:51 GMT -5
49,6 kW = 67,5 HP The torque is not correct, there was a little problem with the 3 cylinder setting on the dyno. (This sheet says the EF10 only made 7250 rpm but it was 8250 instead)
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dogoman
A Boxer engine will fit in a Justy, its called a WRX
Posts: 445
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Post by dogoman on Jan 10, 2012 4:27:56 GMT -5
eek, tyre frying time.... good specs from an EF10
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Post by streetruler on Feb 8, 2012 11:51:47 GMT -5
one thing i did, and this is so ghetto....but i was noticing that my justy ran rich and i wanted to avoid a carb rebuild since im lazy.
I fabbed up a little sheet metal ram air duct to get more air into the carb in hopes of leaning it out. its a rectangular piece that just directs air one specific direction. I mounted it in the front bumper right by the license plate. I did however play with different locations and this was the best i found.
i cut a hole in the plate next to the rad so the sheet metal duct could poke its neck into the engine bay and ran some dryer duct to it from the carb air pan. I sealed off all other openings to the air pan using duct tape (starting to understand the ghetto part?) and taped the dryer duct to the pan via a hole i cut in the pass side of it and taped it to the "intake duct" note, i cut the holes in the pan as big as possible to maximize cross sectional area of the dryer duct feeding the carb.
i noticed the other day that there was a lack of power from the normal and sure enough the duct work had slipped off the sheet metal box. i reattached it and there was a significant power increase. now im not saying that it was like 20 im saying it was noticeable. like 5 at best id think. There was also a large shift in the power band making it really peaky and virtually non existent.
i noticed at certain speed & rpm combos it works better as it is a "ram air" duct. and i think the higher the speed & lower rpm the better it does as the valves are physically open longer (time wise, not degree wise) allowing me to stuff a little extra air in the cylinder.
i noticed that when i did this i gained 2-3mpg initially. I was commuting 25 miles one way on the highway and wanted to eek out as many mpg as i could. after all the diddling with the duct and moving its location a few times i gained a total of 6MPG on the freeway. thats an insane amount of mileage to gain for something this simple.
not saying its magic, it was a combo of a rich carb, not enough air and finally leveling things out.
Next mileage/drag reduction is a splitter made of plywood for the front.
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dogoman
A Boxer engine will fit in a Justy, its called a WRX
Posts: 445
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Post by dogoman on Feb 8, 2012 18:21:51 GMT -5
my next mission, re jet the justy for methanol.....will let you know what explodes.
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