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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 18, 2010 1:33:47 GMT -5
NOT Currently Running. Not getting spark. I have replaced: ignition relay coil plugs plug wires distributer cap rotor Still no spark... what could be wrong? car prob has about 150k miles, odo says under 60k but i think it rolled over. **Car seems not to be getting spark before the Coil (ithink thats what its called) NOTE- RED CIRCLE- Is where i last checked down the line and no power is going through. is there somewhere else i should check? GREEN CIRCLE- does this thing draw power to the coil? could that be whats wrong?
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Post by onsk8 on Apr 18, 2010 10:39:52 GMT -5
Check the wires and connector on the distributor and leading from it. Frayed wires can develop there.
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 18, 2010 19:52:11 GMT -5
BUMP PIX UPDATED
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Post by zach on Apr 18, 2010 20:23:34 GMT -5
that looks like it could be the ignitor for the coil...could be dead. Have you checked for codes?
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 18, 2010 20:46:08 GMT -5
havnt checked for coded. have a obd2 reader lol dont think it works on obd1 lol. umm byt wheres the ignitor located and im assuming that leads somewhere before the point in the red?
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 19, 2010 10:16:44 GMT -5
alright, used a test light again, and found out i AM getting power all the way to the coil, and then after the coil no power. i had changed the coil. but i think thats bad. so im going to buy another COIL but OEM this time
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Post by zach on Apr 19, 2010 10:41:22 GMT -5
get an igniter. the igniter tells the coil when to fire when told by the ECU.
Distributor Magnetic Pickup to ECU to Igniter to Coil to Plugs
The ECU detects the rising and falling of the 'hall effect' or magnetic field from the toothed wheel inside the distributor. When the ECU sees the voltage drop (magnetic field drop) it sends +5 volts to the igniter and tells it fire the coil, which in turn of course sends voltage to the distributor cap. If your igniter is toasted your coil will not fire even though its getting voltage.
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 19, 2010 11:31:11 GMT -5
alright ill try that. ^^ thanks btw. so i should just go to the store and ask for a Igniter?
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Post by RedRooJusty on Apr 19, 2010 16:58:50 GMT -5
alright ill try that. ^^ thanks btw. so i should just go to the store and ask for a Igniter? That part is incorporated into the distributor. The distributor connector (mentioned by **onsk8**) is the most common place for failure. Please check the distributor connector for broken wires, frayed wires, pins that are corroded, pins that are backed out. I am including a picture of the wiring for a gen-2 (Carbureted) ignition, take note of the two power fuses, and wire colors. Hopefully this can help you out. Welcome to this forum , let us know how it works out. -RRJ
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Post by zach on Apr 19, 2010 18:31:28 GMT -5
It's incorporated into the distributor? I didn't see where it was, just some magnetic pickups inside.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Apr 19, 2010 21:52:08 GMT -5
It's incorporated into the distributor? I didn't see where it was, just some magnetic pickups inside. **zach**, you are correct. My comment is that I cannot find the two magnetic pickups sold on their own, only as part of the whole distributor assembly. the Ignition Timing Module (circled on green in the photo above), acts as the igniter using the magnetic pickup (within the distributor) for input. -RRJ -----modified !!---- The Gen2 Carb-engine distributor has only one pickup, It can be purchased for 15~40$ at rock auto.
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 20, 2010 2:46:15 GMT -5
ok updated profile.
Alright so where is this Ignition control modular at on my car?
And **REDRooJusty** i just bought the car back and the distrib is new. im not sure if he installed it backwards how can i tell, ive never done one before
also so what do you thinkg the top 2 ideas that are wrong with my car are?
thanks guys.
Going to bed hope to have answers in the morning.
and so the Distributator can pull power from the Coil? because im not even getting power from the other side of the coil when trying to start the car.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Apr 20, 2010 9:38:15 GMT -5
**snakebite420** a new distributor is good news. The distributor can only be installed one way, but the cap could be installed 180° out.
I have that exact coil/ignition control assembly (from your picture above) from a pick-lot pull, The black/white wire is power on both connectors. When the ignition is on, the connector (circled in Red in your pic) should show power on the black/white wire. The power passes through the ignition control module to the two-wire connector on the coil itself. The black/white wire to the coil should show power when ignition is on and the control module is plugged in (red circled connector). If you are not getting power at the coil, then I can ship you my spare ignition assembly cheap.
I think you are doing fine with your trouble-shooting, My suggestions are: 1. Assure there is power to the ignition control module and through to the coil. 2. Assure that the ignition module can get the trigger signal from the distributor (we fault the distributor connector either side). 3. Look under the cap&rotor and assure that the magnetic pickup is plugged in (this is only for gen2 carb engines) 4. We will move on when you can confirm 1&2&3.
This system is simple. Power input from ignition relay with a trigger pulse from the magnetic pickup (distributor), all into ignition timing control module that drives the coil to spark. -RRJ
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 20, 2010 11:25:27 GMT -5
**redroojusty**
alright sounds good, im currently at work so i cannot check the status of my car just yet.
But heres more info on what he told me on what had happened.
-He told me it was fine the whole day and when driving home about 30mph on a flat smooth road the car just died.-
just might narrow it down im not sure but hope it helps some. but i get off in about 6 hours, so hopefully when i post up the results of what (redroojusty) has wanted me to do i can get a response from you guys.
thanks for all the help, and future help on getting my car running again, i really appreciate it.
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 20, 2010 13:38:50 GMT -5
ok so i just checked on break and theres power in the blk/white wire going all the way to the coil. past the thing circled in green and no power after the coil.
also the cap is on right, only 1 say to do it i cant install it the other way.
there is a black and a white wire leading to the distrib on the bottom side and i checked for power in both those wires and there was none. when the cars key was on "on"
so is that connector on the distrib suppose to have power or no?
well gotta go back to work ill continue this in 4 hours.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Apr 20, 2010 16:05:37 GMT -5
ok so i just checked on break and theres power in the blk/white wire going all the way to the coil. past the thing circled in green and no power after the coil. There should be "switched-on" power on that two pin connector (@ the coil itself), this would lead me to believe that the ignition timing control module is bad. so is that connector on the distrib suppose to have power or no? The pins at the distributor connector should only show resistance of the inductance coil (with power off), as **zach** described the pickup in the distributor induces a current (voltage) from the rotation of the distributor. In short the distributor makes a voltage only when turning. -RRJ
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 20, 2010 16:27:48 GMT -5
alright. where is the Ignition timing Control Module at?
also is it also known as the Ignition Module? if so thats the part they sell at all stores in my area for a unreasonable amount. and that makes me ask do you have a working spare one that i can purchase from you or what not?
**NOTE: also restating just in case i do have power after the thing thats circled in the green. just not after the coil that leads to the distrib. just wanted to make sure ahah.
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SeattleJusty
No, a boxer will not fit in a Justy.
Posts: 1,587
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Post by SeattleJusty on Apr 20, 2010 16:37:39 GMT -5
alright. where is the Ignition timing Control Module at? also is it also known as the Ignition Module? if so thats the part they sell at all stores in my area for a unreasonable amount. and that makes me ask do you have a working spare one that i can purchase from you or what not? **NOTE: also restating just in case i do have power after the thing thats circled in the green. just not after the coil that leads to the distrib. just wanted to make sure ahah. The brain that controls your ignition is a small sliver/grey box, bolted to the inside bulkhead under the dash and ahead of the door on the right side of the car (mechanic's view) or in North America that would be the driver's side. Clear as mud, right? Open the door and attached to the wall just ahead of it is your box. Maybe one of us can post a photograph.
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Post by RedRooJusty on Apr 20, 2010 16:48:44 GMT -5
alright. where is the Ignition timing Control Module at? also is it also known as the Ignition Module? if so thats the part they sell at all stores in my area for a unreasonable amount. and that makes me ask do you have a working spare one that i can purchase from you or what not? **NOTE: also restating just in case i do have power after the thing thats circled in the green. just not after the coil that leads to the distrib. just wanted to make sure ahah. Yes, the module (circled green in your pic) is the Ignition Timing Module (aka the Ignition Module in a carbureted Gen-2). If you believe your coil to be bad then I have a working spare. I find the whole ignition (in your picture) assembly listed for ~86$ new. I sent you a PM for my selling price. When I get home from work today, I will read the resistance of the ignition coil, just FYI. --update-- **SeattleJusty** and I are not disagreed. I am at the mercy of schematics, and they have been wrong (by year) before.
I find from schematics that: Gen-1, has the distributer wiring going into the EFC/ECU under the dash.
Gen-2 (Carb), has a stand alone Ignition module mounted beside the coil.
Gen-2 (MPEFI), has the distributer wiring going into the ECU under the dash. -RRJ
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Post by snakebite420 on Apr 20, 2010 19:12:10 GMT -5
ok im gunna see if the junk yard here has a Module. cause i might be able to get it for 10$ we will see. trying to save mula, just got a new job and only get paid monthly and very short on cash atm.
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