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Post by JLantz on Apr 17, 2004 1:20:15 GMT -5
-If we pull the plug shown in the right picture, it enables access to the pressure side of the pump housing. A hole could be drilled connecting the pressure side to the the shaft bore. I imagine a .040" hole would suffice. The hole that the plug was pulled from could be tapped and and a pipe plug inserted, or a new plug pressed in. Theoretically the pump would lose outlet pressure because of this new path for the oil to escape, but this is a constant-displacement gerotor pump and therefore always delivers a higher pressure than is required, hence the relief valve. The oil pressure would be uneffected as the relief valve would simply not relieve until the pressure it has always been set at has built up.
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Post by JLantz on Apr 26, 2004 0:19:57 GMT -5
I have a question for you guys with a turbo installed: -What point on the engine are you picking up the oil to supply the turbo?
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Post by DoItSidewayz on Apr 26, 2004 18:35:32 GMT -5
from the oil pressure sensor.
Just got a T fitting and ran off that. The oil drains right back into the oil pan
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Post by JLantz on Apr 26, 2004 23:58:58 GMT -5
Did you have a oil pressure gauge set up before you installed the turbo? If so, was there a drop in oil pressure after the turbo was installed?
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Apr 27, 2004 6:13:38 GMT -5
Mornin', I had some time yesterday and thus got further with disassembling my 2nd engine. I managed to open the oil pump and ... The Cover is looking a bit like the one in the photo you find earlier in this thread. So it seams the bearing ist worn out a bit. It's not that bad - bit it already was scratching the cover. I can provide pictures if you want. Anyway, the questions: 1. Do you see any possebility to repair this situation? Getting the cover in shape isn't the problem I guess (just grind it a bit). But I'm worrying about the bearing. Any ideas? 2. How to remove the plug to drill the hole into the bearing? Greetings, Klaus
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Post by DoItSidewayz on Apr 27, 2004 15:34:17 GMT -5
i didn't have my Oil pressure gauge installed before i turboed it.
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Jun 28, 2004 6:05:41 GMT -5
Hi all, I've done some bits on my engine lately and found a new solution to the oil pump problem: You can just drill from the inlet side. I suspect, that the additional hole on the non-pressure side won't have any real effect. So here ist what I did: Drill from inlet side to outlet: View into the inlet (you can see both holes): The tool used - a drill bit and a Bosch IXO: The hole itself is 2mm (0.079 in) as I only had a drill bit of that size. So well - we'll see if this works out Greetings, Klaus
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Post by JLantz on Jun 30, 2004 1:31:35 GMT -5
By connecting the shaft bore to both the pressure side and the inlet side, you have created a direct route for the oil to circulate. The lower pressure (you could call it negative) of the inlet side will draw the higher pressure from the pressure side. The only problem I see is that it might cause the pump to cavitate by drawing air through the clearance between the shaft and the bore. It wouldn't draw alot of air because the oil pickup tube is a much bigger orifice, but it would be enough to aerate the oil (think of drinking through a straw that has hole in it), which is totally bad. The more I think about it, this seems to be exactly the problem. The pump fails because the shaft and bore wear out so much that the clearance between the two allows air to be drawn into the inlet side, drastically reducing the volume of oil sent to the bearings. My worn oil pump(100K engine) cavitated when I used 10w-40. I started using 20w-50 with a 1/3 quart of the Lucas oil and it has stopped. This thicker oil could be filling the clearance and not allowing air to be "sucked" in. I just installed a new pump shaft, this makes the clearance smaller. If I run the lighter oil again the pump shouldn't cavitate if my theory is correct. I have a pressure gauge that I've been meaning to install, I really need to get on that.
Klaus, did you have an oil pressure gauge set up before you did this modification? I'd like to know if there is any drop in pressure with this mod completed. The pump cavitating will be easy to tell; it will sound wet and bubbley- intermittently, engine warm, at idle.
My idea of removing the ball/plug and drilling won't work easily. The plug is a hardened steel ball bearing and is not easily removed, though a machine shop should be able to get it out. I haven't looked into it because my mind has been elsewhere. Thank's for peaking my interest again, Klaus.
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Jun 30, 2004 5:53:37 GMT -5
By connecting the shaft bore to both the pressure side and the inlet side, you have created a direct route for the oil to circulate. The lower pressure (you could call it negative) of the inlet side will draw the higher pressure from the pressure side. That is correct - I was aware of this. That's the part I didn't think a second about to be honest. You might be right. I'll assemble the engine anyways and see what's gonna happen. That would be interesting! Unfortunately not so I can't provide values for Oil pressure ... OK, that's good to know - so we'll know when I have it reassembled. Do I need a stethoscope to hear it or can it be heard without? That was my problem - I suspected the ball to be very hard - maybe harder than my steel drills. Also my solution was done within 3 mins - the other would need a lot more time. But well - as we all know, the simplest solutions are sometimes best and sometimes worst No problem. Another idea I had was replacing the slide bearing with a ball bearing. The things to do would be: Drill the bore to 16mm (0.63in) and grind the shaft to 10mm (0.4in) using a lathe. This would give room for a ball or needle bearing which has to be encapsulated. What do you think about that? Greetings, Klaus
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Post by Justyracer on Jun 30, 2004 11:55:36 GMT -5
any way....Klaus...let us know how the engine runs...
we do need more oil pressur.
good luck!
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Post by trustytom on Jul 4, 2004 23:19:34 GMT -5
I had that same problem (oil pump failure) on my 90 fuel injected justy. I replaced the shaft (about $20) , and the oil Pump cover ( $8) . But the damage was done. The idiot light no longer flickers at idle after it warms up, but it has that vibration at 3000rpm that tells me the engine is not long for this world. I'm swapping engines now. I have an oil pressure gauge, but the sending unit(elec.) wouldn't fit because of the A/C. Since I'm swapping engines, I'm going to install the sending unit before I put the engine in. Even if I have to leave out the A/C. I THINK THE WHOLE PROBLEM IS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE THE OIL ENOUGH. -----not including the red-line racing crowd. When I first got the car I put 20W50 and lucas in it, drove it 60 miles, changed it and it was black!
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Post by JLantz on Aug 4, 2004 1:30:57 GMT -5
KLaus,
How's the mod going?
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Aug 4, 2004 5:38:27 GMT -5
Well, at this time it's looking really good! It sounds absolutely wonderful. I'm using 15W40 Castrol oil and I don't hear any sucktion soundings from the oil pump. But well - if it's going to last really long I can't say. I've been driving it for maybe 100 miles now since I've redone the engine. Greetings, Klaus
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Nov 2, 2004 8:12:02 GMT -5
Morning all Now this time oil pump mod EVO II comes up I think this is the final thing which should solve all problems related to the oil pump not getting lubed correctly. Here's what I did: You need: a Dremel/Proxxon Rotary Tool and an engraving cutter like this one www.dremel.com/productdisplay/bit_template.asp?SKU=107&Color=009999I used 20 000 rpm which worked pretty well in the aluminium. Now the oil pump housing needs to be cleaned very well. I used a spray for cleaning brakes and parts and pressure air. Now you kind of abuse the engraver Use it to drill a transversal hole from the shaft bearing to the pressure side of the oil pump housing. We now have a connection ONLY from the pressure side to the bearing part. To make it better, engrave a groove from the hole upwards and downwards, so that it stops about 3mm before every end of the bearing. Clean the outer side of the drilled hole from slivers with the grinder. User pressure air to clean all. (I will post pics as soon as possible to show you how this all is meant). The groove has a big function. If the shaft is turning, it will automaticlly "suck" oil into the slit of the slide bearing. Greetings, Klaus
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Post by Justyracer on Nov 2, 2004 8:49:15 GMT -5
cool....let us know how much it improve the pressur. pix would be cool to.
thanks!
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DBA
I'm going to rallye with a Justy
Posts: 121
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Post by DBA on Nov 3, 2004 7:16:44 GMT -5
cool....let us know how much it improve the pressur. I don't think this will improve pressure in any way. The point is to make the pump last longer and to reduce the risk of a bearing getting worn. Images are here - you'll have to look very close to see it I've ordered a new shaft and rotor for the pump and the housing was in very good condition. So this is going to be like new - but improved Greetings, Klaus
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SubieGuy
The guy who put a boxer in a Justy. :)
Posts: 191
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Post by SubieGuy on Nov 17, 2004 3:44:52 GMT -5
Would it be a good idea to fit another electric oil pump in line with the old one?
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Post by renaissanceman on Jan 7, 2005 23:54:03 GMT -5
I noticed my engine has a severe problem with dry starts, I was thinking of installing a permenant electric priming pump just to keep things from rattling when I fire it up.
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Post by ccphil55 on Apr 16, 2005 22:16:18 GMT -5
I have the oil light come on when i turn left quickly and less than 1/2 quart down, is this related to a gone oil pump, or is this somthing else. My car has 78000 miles on it and the oil pump has never been replaced
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Post by Rovah on May 4, 2005 17:47:32 GMT -5
Anyone else not seeing the pictures? I'm seeing little blue boxes.
Cheers! John
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