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Post by madmatt on Oct 24, 2013 16:29:04 GMT -5
Houston, we have torque!!!
I drove the Justy for the first time since the motor build today... It is still very rough, and not tuned (having the wideband ROCKS). Running rich in the 10:1 area at idle, even a bit richer part throttle...
However...
It laid 20 feet of rubber in 2nd gear!!!! I went up the street, just cruising along, put my foot down and it spun from 20km/h. THE JUSTY, yes, really...
Put it in 4wd, and it just pulled straight and nice.
Carbs are really sticking under vacuum though. It wants to hold up around 1/3-1/5 throttle when running. Not running they drop all the way down. Plastic slides, stock return spring. I don't think they should need any type of lube, so I will work to get that sorted then start jetting this thing!
Oooh baby.
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Post by gearheadeh on Oct 24, 2013 20:52:15 GMT -5
That sounds really good, can't wait to hear how it is once it is sorted! Congrats.
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Post by madmatt on Nov 12, 2013 23:31:36 GMT -5
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Post by gearheadeh on Nov 13, 2013 9:32:22 GMT -5
You may be starting last with number 49 but I think that even though you spotted them a turbo you are gonna beat the other ancient old 1988 car - -- the POOgeot number 34 Go go JUSTY!
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Post by madmatt on Nov 13, 2013 10:40:47 GMT -5
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Post by hollandjusty on Nov 23, 2013 12:48:56 GMT -5
That's a Subaru too! (see top of the windscreen )
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Post by indkid87 on Nov 28, 2013 18:32:59 GMT -5
Matt: did you weld that header to the cast manifold? I've been thinking about making my own header, I'm wondering if I'd be better off starting with a stock mani or trying to make it from scratch. I'm not sure I can get accurate enough with just a drill press. -Dave
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Post by madmatt on Nov 28, 2013 22:43:53 GMT -5
Matt: did you weld that header to the cast manifold? I've been thinking about making my own header, I'm wondering if I'd be better off starting with a stock mani or trying to make it from scratch. I'm not sure I can get accurate enough with just a drill press. -Dave Dave, Yes... (ducks and runs for cover...) I should have found some raw steel and made a plate, but I did not. I cut the old header up, got a 1.5" bi-metal hole saw from Home Depot and went to town. It worked great. I have had limited success with welding cast with mig in the past... in this case I used flux core (runs, ducks for cover) but I beveled the inside edge of the plate and ran a bead around the tube first, then welded the tube to the plate. Thus I feel the cast plate is acting to hold the "swollen tube end" in place, and if (when) the weld cracks... it cracks, but still holds the tube in place. I have since added a lower support back to the block. I leave for Pines tomorrow, there is still tons to do on the car, but I needed a break from bolting stuff up and came here. I will try to post som pics of the mount later (after this weekend) When I do it again... I will have some plates plasma or water cut. But you could easily trace and drill on a standard drill press. It would just take a while.
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Post by indkid87 on Nov 29, 2013 2:33:17 GMT -5
Ok cool, clever trick on how to make it work. I have a spare manifold or 2 that are otherwise messed up so I wouldn't feel guilty about hacking good parts.
I think I'll go the fabricate from scratch route though, but that project's pretty far down the list right now.
Good luck at tall pines, keep it shiny side up.
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Post by hollandjusty on Nov 30, 2013 9:34:54 GMT -5
Hi guys, I got them flanges in stock, they fit like a glove!
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Post by madmatt on Dec 3, 2013 14:53:04 GMT -5
Hi guys, I got them flanges in stock, they fit like a glove! Oh my.... drool why didn't you post this 3 months ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by madmatt on Dec 3, 2013 14:56:10 GMT -5
The long story…
The Justy LIVES!!!!!!!!!!
The week leading up was pretty hectic to get ready, not just the car, but life as well. I’m a stay-at-home-dad, and my partner couldn’t take time off Friday for me to leave for recce or shake-down. No worries, I’ll just leave when she gets home.
Except, I never have anything ready ahead of time, and Thursday night (after finishing up the car at 3:30 am) I came down with the flu bad. Friday I could barely function let alone chase my nearly 2 yr old around the house. In the end the car wasn’t loaded to leave until 9:30-10:00 pm Friday night. I arrived in Maynooth (we love the Arlington ‘cause it’s $25 a night…) around 2:30 am, pretended to sleep for a few hours, got up, towed car to Bancroft.
Car was running pretty well, but a bit rich (10-11:1 at part to full throttle) earlier in the week. Jeff had brought leaner main jets and we planned to swap them that morning, but in the frigid cold it seemed to be running more around 12-13:1 ( I do love that wideband!) so I said screw it, we’ll leave it.
I also flat towed the beast from Montreal behind the Volvo so I didn’t have to rent/beg/borrow a truck and trailer smiling smiley But as we only had one pair of tires made within the decade, I didn’t tow it on them…
We got the car tech’d but the bone shaking cold at 6 am was killing the marginal battery, so by the time we sourced another battery, there was no time to change tires. We went into Parc Expose with seconds to spare, on old Hakka 10’s that were harder than shoe leather.
First transit saw the first real road travel the car has seen since the motor build. It pulled great, if nothing else sounded AWESOME. The throttles were a bit sticky, and sometimes it would hold up around 3000-4000 rpm, but otherwise response was great.
First stage was fun, funny, sketchy at best, my first real stage since 2005 (oh yeah and my first stage on snow ever!). The hard Hakka’s might as well have been hockey pucks. BUT MAN DID WE HAVE FUN! I had my first ever “off”, just no traction on the polished bits and went off mildly in a shallow ditch. I think Jeff thought we would be waiting for sweep. I shoved the beast into reverse, hopped out of the ditch, spun around and we were back on.
“We’re not winning races, keep it out the ditch!” “Okay… we’re not winning races”
Rest of the stage went well. Car worked pretty good. John is right, we are on pretty much bone stock suspension, with “coilovers” and I swapped the fluid in the fronts to a mix of fork oil and 20-50 cause I read somewhere somebody did that once… winking smiley Backs are still stock, with stiffer springs. It’s too hard up front for the ice, but we were on crappy tires too, so nothing really mattered. We were having fun.
A2 started great, and on the less polished surface we were actually moving at a decent clip. About 4 min in the car just stopped. Dead. On a tight section, uphill, with no real room to pull over. Jeff got out put out a triangle (we’re thinking for Car 99…) , and came back. Within seconds, what might have been Crerar and Drake (not sure, was a white suby) came up. They must have gone off and I didn’t see them, or went off on A2 and got out after we passed. With Jeff back from the triangle we managed to push the car off to the side (Sorry anyway to whoever it was that came across us stuck in the middle of the road).
Some idiot engine builder either did not torque the cam gear bolts, or otherwise something strange happened. Two of the 3 bolts were awol, the gear was hanging by the third bolt half off, and the belt was off. I slammed the hood, mad, and told Jeff “we’re done” Thought for a sec, opened the hood, looked, thought, grabbed the tool bag, pulled two bolts from the rad support, and bolted the gear back on with them using a pair of vice grips. By hand I couldn’t spin the cam, so we pried the timing belt back on (no long socket to slack off the belt), I bumped the starter once. Pried the belt off again, set the cam timing. Put the car in gear, pushed until we set the bottom end timing. Pried the belt back on, started the car, finished the stage!
Because it’s the Justy, and I’m a pro rally car builder, I packed the welder… Worried as hell the cam gear bolts would back out again, at service we tacked them! STAY, STAY M-F-Kr, STAY! Oh and switched to our “good” snows (used Walmart Nexen WINGUARDS!) made within the last decade, but still old.
Back out we went. Second time through on Old Hastings on the classy tires was way better, but I still took it pretty easy.
Then things started to go a bit awry. It was warming up, and now we were back to running really rich, and the throttle response was terrible, but drivable. I just kept it pretty steady, slow, sliding anyway, and we had fun. Then came the spectator part of the stage… The Justy seems to draw some weird spectator support, and I like to honk the horn, and put my foot the floor… we climbed up the hill a pretty good clip, and ditch hooked the last left hand corner before the finish. The car came out of the ditch and I didn’t let off. But then realized we would go wide and were closing on the finish control, the little gopro camera, oh yeah and the marshals and photogs.
I lifted and not much happened. So I mashed the pedal, and turned the wheel… and yep, went into the opposite (left ) ditch, on the other side of the finish! Tall Pines - “winter roads, summer ditches”. We went off on a downhill at a good clip into a wide open ditch and I thought “I’ll drive it out”, turned the wheel, slid sideways, hit something very big buried in the snow, and stopped. I tried to climb out of the ditch, but it wouldn’t quite come out. Shortly, Hartl and Storry came along and gave us a quick tug (Thanks guys!).
Up on the road the most horrific sound from the back drivers side… Rear control arm looked like a noodle. I grabbed toolbag and the BFH and started wailing on it, but soon Sylvain (in car 99) came up and gave the disapproving look a father would give a son, and said “I think your rally is finished, can I have your card?” I argued for a moment that I could turn a pretzel into a ruler with my bare hands but he didn’t buy it. Jeff handed him the card behind my back with a wink and a smile, and I went back to hitting the car.
We did drive the car off the stage, and back through Bancoft. We took a ratchet strap, hooked the rear wheel to the front, and turned the front wheel while hammering on the control arm (gotta love mechanical advantage). We got the tire off the body, but still about 15-20 degrees of toe out, and 10-15 degrees of positive camber. It drove AWESOME. Jeff pulled the plug on the stoopididy, and we got a trailer 10 k from service.
We put up a mild petition to let us run again if we could fix it, and there was lots of support, however we were turned down. I chatted with several CARS, and Pines folks later, and we are being encouraged to write to CARS to express how in the sake of allowing competitors stage mileage, if you can fix it, why not get to run again! Everybody was super nice about it, just “those are the current rules” “probably should be changed”
So our rally was done. There is some minor body damage I think, the hit moved the subframe mounts a bit, because the other side has negative camber that was not there before winking smiley and certainly there is some wrinkling in the rusty ( I mean, um, thin,) metal in the wheel well (pics to follow, I didn’t take any yet)
I think with a ½ hour in service we could have been back in the rally, but dem’s da breaks, and we had a FANTASTIC time for what short time it was. We were last or nearly last on each stage, but I didn’t care, the Justy rides again!
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Post by 3idiotnumber2 on Dec 3, 2013 17:07:49 GMT -5
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 3, 2013 17:48:20 GMT -5
Good going guys, glad you had fun and got the Juasty into a few photo opportunites Heres to more to come! Of those videos posted is the off road dicing in one? Now that the race is done maybe you can tell me if you got the basic regrind cam from Delta Cams or did you go for the higher lift race version? If so what did you use for valve springs?
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Post by madmatt on Dec 3, 2013 21:48:47 GMT -5
Of those videos posted is the off road dicing in one? Now that the race is done maybe you can tell me if you got the basic regrind cam from Delta Cams or did you go for the higher lift race version? If so what did you use for valve springs? No... the minor off is there in A1. The vids are a bit hard to watch, because the cam is on a pair of googles Jeff was wearing. We we going to zip them to the cage but then we couldn't reach the buttons to turn them on. Didn't work. But gives you an idea of how easy it is for co drivers to get sick! We tried to set them on the dash for A4 (the real off) but I can't remember what happened. The cam specs are halfway down page 3 of this thread. I talked to Delta quite a bit, about the plans for the motor. This is what they suggested. Stock springs. It revs great, and makes torque till over 6 grand. I used to shift around 5, and try not to go below 3. Now the motor pulls hard from 2500 right through to me saying "okay enough" at 6500-7000. But that's not just the cam...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 22:50:44 GMT -5
Nice work Matt, and Jeff. Looks like a lot of fun. Kudos for getting out there and doing it despite all the setbacks. Hopefully you weren't feeling too flu-y. The beast sounds great. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by madmatt on Dec 4, 2013 0:13:38 GMT -5
thanks ferox!
Oh yeah, we beat the pug! poor Karoly... the headgasket blew before the first stage. nice car though.
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Post by gearheadeh on Dec 4, 2013 18:33:21 GMT -5
See. .. .. I gave you enough good mojo to beat the pug eh! So what if they broke before, a win is a win! You guys have a great looking machine there, however the middle link: Steve's pretty pics isn't working!
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Post by gearheadeh on Feb 11, 2014 22:02:02 GMT -5
Houston, we have torque!!! I drove the Justy for the first time since the motor build today... It is still very rough, and not tuned (having the wideband ROCKS). Running rich in the 10:1 area at idle, even a bit richer part throttle... However... It laid 20 feet of rubber in 2nd gear!!!! I went up the street, just cruising along, put my foot down and it spun from 20km/h. THE JUSTY, yes, really... Put it in 4wd, and it just pulled straight and nice. Carbs are really sticking under vacuum though. It wants to hold up around 1/3-1/5 throttle when running. Not running they drop all the way down. Plastic slides, stock return spring. I don't think they should need any type of lube, so I will work to get that sorted then start jetting this thing! Oooh baby. Matt, I know you have parked the beast till later, but I was hoping for more info and impressions on how the 3 carbs were tuned and how well they worked during the tall pines? P.S. Test2 p.m. is unopened at this point and shows a closed envelope, I will open it after you post here. Hagen
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