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Post by joemiolli on Oct 3, 2009 15:05:42 GMT -5
Hello there I am new to this board, and need some help in troubleshooting a 91 Justy ECVT 4WD GL, I bought a couple of identical Justys, in running condition, but one will not go into reverse, it drives forward fine, but no reverse, is this an easy fix? car has 28000 kms on it, been sitting for a long time. The other Justy is Rusty ,might use it for parts has 144000 km, drives fine but I get a ECVT light for overtemp after a while driving it. any help would be greatly appreciated as I intend to make one good car out of this two vehicles. Newby in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.
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Post by Justy4x4 on Oct 3, 2009 15:43:08 GMT -5
The Justy with no reverse might just be the range switch on the side of the shifter. It tells the trans clutch controller when a gear has been selected. Does the reverse light on the dash light up when selecting reverse? If the controller isn't getting the signal that it's in a gear it won't power up the electromagnetic clutch. Otherwise it might have something broken internally.
The other Justy with the ECVT light on most likely needs a fresh set of brushes. When they get worn to their limit they start loosing contact with the slip rings and the light comes on. The clutch may also feel like it's slipping when that happens. That's all that was wrong with mine when I bought it. Remove the starter ( 2 bolts) then remove the 2 screws holding in the brush assembly. If one of the brushes is worn down past its indicator line its shot. If they are really oily/greasy from a leaky valve cover or distributor that can also cause issues. Worth a look and not at all hard to do.
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 3, 2009 19:59:00 GMT -5
Thank you, Justy4X4, I will be checking the range switch and the brushes, and I will let you know what happens, thanks a million for your input.
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 7, 2009 21:13:40 GMT -5
Hello Justy4x4, I did what you told me regarding the ecvt light, the brushes were oily I cleaned them up reinstalled them and the light hasn't come back. Regarding my other justy with the reverse problem, I found out that the range switch was okay ( the one installed on the shifter lever) and the problem was adjustment of the transmission shifting cable, when lever was in reverse the tranny would be in between reverse and neutral positions, after adjusting I tried the gears and I had reverse but the transmission and the car would shudder and vibrate, as it would be trying to engage and finally it would move but engine rpms higher than usual, same thing on Drive position, the tranny would slip, shuddering as if trying to engage and wouldnt do more than 15 MPH, I tried a spare ECVT control box that I had, and after that now the vehicle doesnt move , is like the tranny is in neutral, I installed the original ECVT box back, without succes, then finally I inspected the brushes in this car as well, and they were less than half inch fully extended, I imagine they are worn out, now where I need some help is to find out wether this issue would be fixed with a new set of brushes, or do I need another Tranny? Or maybe I fried the control box? forgot to remove the battery cable when I swapped them... Some help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Justy4x4 on Oct 8, 2009 6:50:48 GMT -5
Hello Justy4x4, I did what you told me regarding the ecvt light, the brushes were oily I cleaned them up reinstalled them and the light hasn't come back. Regarding my other justy with the reverse problem, I found out that the range switch was okay ( the one installed on the shifter lever) and the problem was adjustment of the transmission shifting cable, when lever was in reverse the tranny would be in between reverse and neutral positions, after adjusting I tried the gears and I had reverse but the transmission and the car would shudder and vibrate, as it would be trying to engage and finally it would move but engine rpms higher than usual, same thing on Drive position, the tranny would slip, shuddering as if trying to engage and wouldnt do more than 15 MPH, I tried a spare ECVT control box that I had, and after that now the vehicle doesnt move , is like the tranny is in neutral, I installed the original ECVT box back, without succes, then finally I inspected the brushes in this car as well, and they were less than half inch fully extended, I imagine they are worn out, now where I need some help is to find out wether this issue would be fixed with a new set of brushes, or do I need another Tranny? Or maybe I fried the control box? forgot to remove the battery cable when I swapped them... Some help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Good job figuring out the shift cable adjustment! I hadn't thought of that one. The slipping and shuddering might be the clutch and not the transmission. If the brushes still have the wear indicator line showing then they should still be fine. Otherwise you'll need another set. I've used Nippondenso alternator brushes from a local starter/alternator rebuild shop to repair mine. Only $2 for the pair and a little soldering. I doubt that you hurt the control box in any way as they seem to be pretty robust in my experience. Does the 4wd still engage/disengage? Any other unusual sounds when trying to get the car moving? It's also possible it could have low hydraulic pressure issues. These trannys aren't the easiest things to diagnose, even in person. Also, when you have the starter out reach in and try to spin the clutch by hand. The Silver 4 door Justy I picked up a few weeks ago wouldn't move much under its own power and I found that all the clutch to flywheel bolts were missing. The clutch spun pretty easy with the bolts missing! I stuck 4 bolts in it and now it moves just fine. It has other issues though...
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 8, 2009 9:24:17 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for your quick response, Yes the 4wd engages but not quickly, before it wouldn't do anything,( before I adjusted the shift cable), then after the adjusting it did, and thats when I drove it half a block, then I swapped the box and it doesnt do anything now... the ECVT box gave me a code that relates to the electromagnetic clutch not being powered for more than so many seconds , so I pulled the brushes , I will replace the brushes like you said, do you know how long they supposed to be? is there anything else related to the electromagnetic powder clutch? like relays or fuses? that could stop the power from going to the clutch? anyway I will do some more troubleshooting before I pull the tranny out. I think I will make a good car out of the two, I bought them last week for $ 250 CAD one really rusty thats the one that drives , and the clean one that runs but doesnt drive.... thanks a lot for your help and interest, I have some manuals but its always better to ask somebody who's been there , done that !!!
Joe from Winnipeg.
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 8, 2009 9:28:42 GMT -5
Ah by the way, it doesn't make any sounds at all when I shift it, only the sound of the shifter engaging the detents of the tranny. Is it very hard to find a Justy 5 speed down there in USA? in your area, thats close to Canada. I haven't seen the first one here, and what options if any did they have available? air conditioning? power windows? etc? all I have seen are plain janes..
hear from you, take care.
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Post by Justy4x4 on Oct 8, 2009 19:35:01 GMT -5
Sounds like you got a good deal on a pair of Justy's!
Since your 4wd works one can assume the hydraulic pump is still working fine. The clutch or brushes is most likely the problem.
The brushes are about 19mm long. The alternator brushes I use are slightly shorter but work just fine. The original brushes should have a line scribed on one side to indicate its wear limit. If you don't see a line then it's due for replacement. You may also want to check the overall condition of the wires going to the brushes. I think you can hook up a 12v test light to the brush wires and see if it lights up when you step on the gas, with the engine running of course.
Is the clutch temp light on?
Here in the USA Justy's didn't get much for options. A/C, cassette player and a passenger side mirror were about the only options. Transmissions were any combination of 2wd or 4wd, stick or ECVT. No power steering, windows, locks or mirrors.
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 9, 2009 12:29:03 GMT -5
No the Temp clutch light doesnt stay on, only in diagnostic mode will blink some codes, it does throw a code related to the magnetic clutch, saying that there is no current draw from the clutch, maybe the final issue here are the brushes, I will try to fit some aftermarket brushes as you suggested and see how that works. thanks for all your input
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Post by joemiolli on Oct 23, 2009 17:03:45 GMT -5
This is un update on the ECVT Troubleshooting. I removed the engine and transaxle assembly from the vehicle and separated the Transaxle from the engine, I found that the shaft for the oil pump was previously repaired ( shaft appeared to have been broken and welded together and also was bent and jamming inside the transmission) and probably was disengaged from the engine, there's a groove on the engine side of the shaft that probably carries a circlip to lock it inside the engine flywheel spline and it was not present, can anybody confirm that its supposed to have a circlip or a ring in this groove? Also, before I removed the tranny from the vehicle, it would not longer shift into 4WD , it did so at the beginning but it took a while to engage, at one point as I explained on an earlier post, the vehicle drove half a block but the trannny was slipping shuddering as if trying to grab, so I figure is an oil pressure problem. I didn't hook up a gage to confirm this,but most likely the damaged oil pump shaft is a good indicator. Can anybody give me some advice about installing the good tranny that I have? I don't wanna bend anything. is the magnetic powder clutch supposed to be unbolted from the flywheel? or should it stay attached. Well I have asked a lot of questions, long post. thanks for your help. Joe in Winnipeg Attachments:
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Post by Justy4x4 on Oct 23, 2009 17:35:05 GMT -5
This is un update on the ECVT Troubleshooting. I removed the engine and transaxle assembly from the vehicle and separated the Transaxle from the engine, I found that the shaft for the oil pump was previously repaired ( shaft appeared to have been broken and welded together and also was bent and jamming inside the transmission) and probably was disengaged from the engine, there's a groove on the engine side of the shaft that probably carries a circlip to lock it inside the engine flywheel spline and it was not present, can anybody confirm that its supposed to have a circlip or a ring in this groove? Also, before I removed the tranny from the vehicle, it would not longer shift into 4WD , it did so at the beginning but it took a while to engage, at one point as I explained on an earlier post, the vehicle drove half a block but the trannny was slipping shuddering as if trying to grab, so I figure is an oil pressure problem. I didn't hook up a gage to confirm this,but most likely the damaged oil pump shaft is a good indicator. Can anybody give me some advice about installing the good tranny that I have? I don't wanna bend anything. is the magnetic powder clutch supposed to be unbolted from the flywheel? or should it stay attached. Well I have asked a lot of questions, long post. thanks for your help. Joe in Winnipeg The shafts usually get bent when removing the transmission from the engine if one isn't careful. They bend easy! There is suppose to be a clip in the groove but they usually rust away over the years. I've found it works well to put a small spring in the end of the crank to keep the shaft pushed towards the transmission. If you loose the pump drive you loose everything. Car won't move and 4WD won't do anything either. The powder clutch can stay bolted up. Just make sure to slide everything together STRAIGHT and you won't have any problems. I've put a few of these together and never had an issue. You'll do just fine.
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Post by Quidam on Oct 23, 2009 18:16:21 GMT -5
"I removed the engine and transaxle assembly from the vehicle and separated the Transaxle from the engine, I found that the shaft for the oil pump was previously repaired ( shaft appeared to have been broken and welded together and also was bent and jamming inside the transmission) and probably was disengaged from the engine,"
Hey,
It sounds like the oil pump shaft had been damaged/cut while someone tried to remove it with the engine in the car.
"there's a groove on the engine side of the shaft that probably carries a circlip to lock it inside the engine flywheel spline and it was not present, can anybody confirm that its supposed to have a cir-clip or a ring in this groove?"
There is a clip. Edit: I just looked at mine and it looks like it limits the depth the shaft can go into the flywheel splines.
"Can anybody give me some advice about installing the good tranny that I have? I don't wanna bend anything. is the magnetic powder clutch supposed to be unbolted from the flywheel?"
I'll take a look at mine tomorrow.
Doug
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